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Openings and Joined Wall Assemblies

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Message 1 of 17
lee.imbimbo86EM4
595 Views, 16 Replies

Openings and Joined Wall Assemblies

I'm having this weird issue, were in doors I created don't seem to want to play nicely with joined wall assemblies.

 

In a lot of my final modelling I end up needing to create built up wall assemblies, as the walls vertically changes quite a lot depending on construction type.  Now to be clear, with Revit standard door family, I have no issue with the walls acting as expected.  That being, that I can draw two wall assemblies adjacent to each other and then join them and then the door updates to account for the new thickness of the joined assembly.  But for whatever reason the doors I'm creating don't want to play nicely with the joined walls.  They'll cut multiple layers in a basic wall with multiple layers.  But the second I separate those layers to have more fine control of them in the model, the door doesn't want to cut through the now joined assembly.

 

I've included a picture that shows two walls with doors in them.  The door at the top of the picture is a Revit Standard door family.  The two doors below that are a residential door and garage door I made.  the wall on the left is the standard package Basic Exterior-Brick and CMU on Mtl. Stud wall Assembly.  The wall on the right is three basic walls, one 6" Generic Masonry, on 6" Mtl Stud, on 5/8" GWB.  

 

As you can see the Revit standard door cuts the wall assembly just fine in both cases.  But the doors I created don't seem to want to play nicely with the joined assembly.  What's even weirder is that I have built doors before, and this is the first time I'm having this issue with the joined assembly.

 

I'm figuring that I'm missing a toggle or something, but I can't figure it out, and was hoping that someone here can.

Dr Cutting Problem.PNG

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Message 2 of 17
ToanDN
in reply to: lee.imbimbo86EM4

Did you use an Opening Cut or o Void in the door family?  Opening cut should cut through all joined walls automatically.  A void needs to be deep enough to cut through all joined walls.

Toan Nguyen
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Message 3 of 17

Probably happening because the Door Family is using a Void Extrusion to cut the Host Wall -- not an Opening. The Extrusion is simply not deep enough to penetrate through all the Layers and/or is unable to cut because the Family doesn't have "Cuts with Void when Loaded" checked.   

Message 4 of 17
lee.imbimbo86EM4
in reply to: ToanDN

ToanDN alright the Opening versus the Void thing definitely helped.  I'm now getting it to cut an opening through all the layers.  But it doesn't seem to want to expand the door frame and associated trim out the fit the new wall thickness.

 

Any ideas?

Dr Cutting Problem 2.PNG

Message 5 of 17

It isn't constrained properly then. Align and lock it in the Family.

 

...check the Door properties in the Project. What does the Host Wall read? Maybe it is Hosted to the inset Wall? 

Message 6 of 17

I have it constrained to the reference planes labeled as Interior or Exterior, respectively.  I've been told that sometimes you need to lock it to the actual default wall faces in the family.  But in trying either I don't seem to get a resolution.

Message 7 of 17

Does "Pick New Host" change?  

 

...select Door, press Pick New Host and then select the outer Wall/Layer.  

Message 8 of 17

Doesn't seem to effect it

Message 9 of 17

Inset Parmeter maybe? 

 

You can post the project here if you like us to check. 

Message 10 of 17

Here's the family.  On a side note, apparently the door family doesn't like having to negotiate a void and in opening in the same wall assembly.  I'll just have to model around that I guess, but does effect my garage door.

 

Here is one of the door families, where the trim doesn't seem to want to play ball.

Message 11 of 17

The Jamb doesn't extend either. That's by design. If you want the Trim and Jamb to extend all the way through all the Walls the Door Opening is penetrating, but don't want to hassle with building that intelligence into the Family, just create a Host Wall (that is the same dimensions as the Door Opening) for the Door in the Project.  Make that Host Wall thickness deep enough to match the Walls buildup next to it.  

 

Door 119-1.pngDoor 119-2.png

 

Door 119-3.png

Message 12 of 17
ToanDN
in reply to: lee.imbimbo86EM4

Your family has no issue if you place it in a single wall.  For the trim to work properly in joined walls, you need to use a parameters to control the location of the trim planes, not locking them to the wall interior/exterior surfaces or ref planes in the family.  If your main host is the exterior wall then do that for the interior trim, and vice versa.

 

If you don't want to modify the family, do this:

- create a curtain wall type with automatic embed box ticked

ToanDN_1-1642462159652.png

 

- place a curtain wall of that type and it will cut the joined walls

ToanDN_0-1642462129562.png

 

- change the curtain panel to a wall type the same thickness as the joined walls combined.  If you have a lot of the same thickness in your project then you can set this wall type as default curtain panel in the curtain wall type.

 

ToanDN_2-1642462255183.png

 

ToanDN_3-1642462288314.png

- place you door in that curtain panel wall. Now move the curtain wall and the opening and the door move long with it, or you can copy the curtain wall to multiple places and the doors will populate without any extra work.

 

ToanDN_4-1642462434319.png

 

ToanDN_5-1642462525659.png

 

 

 

 

Toan Nguyen
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Message 13 of 17
lee.imbimbo86EM4
in reply to: ToanDN

That's definitely an interesting approach.  But I guess on a more fundamental level, I'm wondering why it is that the stock revit door families don't have this issue.

 

Again it has some trim built into it, but it's trim adjusts in both wall types, both assembled and joined.  Just seems like there is some trick we are missing here that solved the problem.

 

Correction:  I just rechecked it and the stock revit door family doesn't adjust it's trim on the joined wall.  made a mistake there

Message 14 of 17
ToanDN
in reply to: lee.imbimbo86EM4

What stock door doesn't have this issue?  Can you share it?

Edit: okay nevermind 😉

Toan Nguyen
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Message 15 of 17
lee.imbimbo86EM4
in reply to: ToanDN

I screwed up, I made a correction to my post. You're right the stock door does still have the same issue. I'll just start building my Door families with the ability to adjust veneer thickness and frame thickness. This will make the doors more suitable anyways for a variety a solutions.
Message 16 of 17

Did you understand the Host Wall approach?  Beats the heck out of rebuilding all your Door Families.

Message 17 of 17

Yeah I was employing that earlier.  The idea of just in the area of the doors having the wall be the same thickness as the finish wall assembly.  What I had been doing was just replacing the wall segment for where the door was, with a assembled wall, versus a joined one.

 

It was tedious, and I was trying to figure out what I had been doing wrong to avoid having to do just that.

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