How to stop a curtain wall mullion cutting the transom?

[AndycMacp]

We are using the curtain wall tool to create timber cladding, a method common on YouTube tutorials. We are trying to add the vertical battens behind the horizontal cladding which would be a real benefit for rendering and detailing. 

However, even if the vertical battens do not touch the horizontal cladding boards (mullions), one will cut the other, depending on the 'Join Condition' parameter in the curtain walling family. 

Is there a way to have both continuous horizontal and vertical mullions? i.e. how do you create horizontal and vertical mullions in a single curtain walling family that do not cut each other? The workaround is to make two separate families but this has obvious drawbacks. The other option is forming the cladding boards as a panel but this messes with the setting out. 

Screenshots and a simple model file are attached, I hope someone can help!

Thanks

[ToanDN]

Are the vertical members curtain mullions? If so, you can make them not cut the batten panels by changing the sketch lines in the profile family to not intersect the horizontal reference plane.

[AndycMacp]

I made a new profile that didn't intersect the reference plane but that doesn't work either 😞 Screenshot

 

attached

[ToanDN]

Ate the battens panels or horizontal mullions?

[AndycMacp]

The battens are vertical mullions and the cladding boards are horizontal mullions. The 'Panel' is set to empty

[AndycMacp]

It's worth noting that the front timber cladding boards will often be profiled in section, not just a flat panel, which is why they are suited more to a horizontal mullion

[ToanDN]

The suggested method only works if the battens are panels, not mullions.  If they are mullions then you might want to place two curtain walls back to back.

[AndycMacp]

That's a shame as I don't know if panels can be modelled as square profiles on a slant with straight battens behind, or a variety of timber cladding screens we encounter. If anyone has any ideas it would be good to know! Can curtain wall panels even have a profile in section? 

[ToanDN]

For horizontal siding, you can set the curtain wall to have no horizontal division, use a basic wall type with built-in reveal for curtain panel then it can be shaped accordingly when you edit profile or attached the curtain wall to a sloped floor or roof.

For the angled lattice one you would need two curtain walls, one for the angled lattice and another for the vertical mullions.

[AndycMacp]

I tried it using a curtain panel (rather than a horizontal mullion) to form the cladding boards but the lines between panels show which is misleading. Is there any way to hide the joints between panels? 

[AndycMacp]

Also, the drawback of using a curtain panel shown on the right is that it 'breaks' when editing the wall profile. Using mullions only, as shown on the left, is much more adaptable, we just need to add vertical mullions without them cutting the horizontal mullions 

[ToanDN]

That's because you are using custom panels.  System panels or basic wall type panels can be shaped with angles.  

[AndycMacp]

How do you get rid of the lines between the panels? 

[AndycMacp]

A bit closer using basic walls (with reveals) as the curtain panels and you can join the panels, but only one at a time! Is there a smarter way to do this? 

[AndycMacp]

PS, this only works for horizontal cladding. Vertical cladding would also have battens and counter battens, so three layers. If we could find a way for the mullions not to cut each other as in our initial question then this all gets much easier!

[ToanDN]

You could use just basic wall with built-in reveals by itself, not as panels in a curtain wall, and place vertical sweeps offset from the wall.

[AndycMacp]

Cool, I've tried the basic wall-only option shown below, can you clarify what you mean by vertical wall sweeps? Are these sweeps part of the wall family and how can they be made vertical? 

[ToanDN]

Vertical wall sweeps must be placed manually, not inside the wall type structure.

[AndycMacp]

@ToanDN I really appreciate your help! it is a shame the vertical battens can not be placed as part of the wall, however the wall sweep tool is much quicker than the other alternatives. I've landed with a basic wall, with reveals for the cladding boards, a tall reveal for the battens, then manually placed vertical wall sweeps that sit behind the cladding boards in the right place. This doesn't have the flexibility of a curtain wall mullion grid, but I think it actually will be really useful for early design and rendering work, 

Attached is the revit file with all the options tried if it can help anyone else 🙂 

[ToanDN]

Keep in mind you can array a vertical wall sweep and they will follow the wall shape.