GROUPS AND FAMILY BEHAVIOUR

[GA-LT]

Dear All,

I have kitchen which is grouped and I want copy/paste on level 2 but copied group  is “displaced” but all the time is the same group..

Some elements has “strange” offset parameter which makes this mess.

Any ideas?

[ennujozlagam]

hello, try to go to section and copy from level to level and see if helps (if you see constraints, untick it/unjoin). thanks

[GA-LT]

O.K. - all casework  families (maybe different  types too) cannot be built as Work Plan-Based. It makes real mess when moving or copying groups made of those families. Maybe there is hidden logic in this or just a bug? 

Greetings
LT

[barthbradley]

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@GA-LT wrote:

O.K. - all casework  families (maybe different  types too) cannot be built as Work Plan-Based. It makes real mess when moving or copying groups made of those families. Maybe there is hidden logic in this or just a bug? 

Greetings
LT

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Could you post your group? You can save a Model Group as a Revit RVT by right-clicking on its name in the Project Browser in then choosing "Save as..." in the dialog box.  

[aRcHiTeCt.JM]

.... if that behavior keeps showing

.... just divide the group into two parts

... then you insert one group and then the other group

....

[ToanDN]

Host based and work plane based families don't work well in groups. Edit the families and untick work plane based box, reload, and recreate the group.

[barthbradley]

Interesting.  We group wall and face based together without issue.  I don't recall ever having grouped elements ever being displaced from one another like this.  I'm thinking align-lock constraints would solve the issue.  

@GA-LT: You didn't receive a "Fix Group" error by chance? If so, how did you handle it? 

[ToanDN]

It's okay if the host and the hostages are in the same group. That is not what I am seeing from OP picture.

[aRcHiTeCt.JM]

.... I think you need to be practical.

... revit behavior sometimes is "weird" .... so why don't you go with the flow

... could be an issue with the tamplate, with the visibility, with the families, with a lot of elements....

... as I said before:

.... if that behavior keeps showing

.... just divide the group into two parts

... then you insert one group and then the other group

....

[barthbradley]

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@ToanDN wrote:
It's okay if the host and the hostages are in the same group. That is not what I am seeing from OP picture.

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Oh, I see! I think I get what you're saying now, @ToanDN. "Hostages". Ha! You're thinking nested groups, aren't you? Yep, I would totally agree. Groups with nested groups are problematic  -- especially when mixing hosted and unhosted elements.  Good eye.

...and, Nested Groups are also discouraged (second bullet point): 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/EN...

[ToanDN]

Hostages are families hosted on the host. I didn't mean nested groups.

[barthbradley]

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@ToanDN wrote:
Hostages are families hosted on the host. I didn't mean nested groups.

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Ahhh!  So that's the purpose of this Revit Tool!  I always wondered what is was for, but was too afraid to click it.  

[GA-LT]

Hi, this is exactly what I found and out after short research.

 

Groups are not crazy anymore.

Thanks for your support.

LT

[syman2000]

I like to know if those cabinets are host by face? I have a case where I mirror or copy the object to another level, the object move in a considerable distance. Not sure if it was bug or something must of trigger it to move.

[barthbradley]

@GA-LT: I'm confused. The base cabinets look fine in your original screenshot; it was the wall based cabinets that displaced. How did checking or unchecking the Work Plane-Based parameter in the the Base Cabinet's help? Also, still curious if you got a "Fix Group" error.  It looks like Revit created another group from the original group.  

[GA-LT]

Hi,

they are not wall or face based. Sometimes I need cabinets when there is nothing around so they are more flexible to be not hosted.
Copied group is exactly the same group as original (there is even no massage about error) but looks different which is very strange but true. 
To uncheck Work Plane-Based parameter you have to open cabinet in family editor.

LT

[barthbradley]

@GA-LT: I understand what the Work Plane-Based Parameter does and how to use.  I also understand, from your above post, that none of the families in your Group are either a Wall or Face Based Family - and that they all have their Work Plane-Based setting unchecked. That means that all the Casework in your Parent Group is hosted to a Level (not Wall, Face or Workplane).  

I think I know what's going now and why you’re not getting a “Fix Group” error. Is the “displaced” group, shown in your screenshot, overlapping a Level?  

[ToanDN]

They were broken when the Work Plane box was checked.  They have been fixed after the box was clear.

[barthbradley]

That will do it every time.  I have found a workaround that mitigates for this. Make the "Back" Ref. Plane an "Origin" Ref. Plane before reloading.  

[GA-LT]

Hi, I have found out that problematic was also additional parameter of upper level cabinets.