Generic Model Family vs Level placement

[mpukas]

Generic Model as window trim vs Level - this is a real problem, not just another one of my complaints. I have a window trim family as a generic model, as well as a similar line-based trim family for corner boards, etc., and I place it on the exterior face of wall at windows and doors, in either elevation or 3D view. The problem is, as it's generic model, it's associated to a level. When placing the family, I have no control over what level it gets placed on, and after it's placed I cannot change the level (well, there is sort of a way, but it's doesn't work very well and is time consuming and frustrating). 

Why is this is problem? It's a problem because as a project develops, levels change. Footing depths change; garage slab elevation may change. Revit seemingly randomly puts the family on a level it see fit, which most of the time is not the level that the window or door is on. Often it's on a footing level. So if the footing level changes, then the families that are on that level move. And I therefore have to go through the whole project to find which families Revit put on that footing level, and move them back into place. 

So, my question is: is there anyway to control the level that a generic model family is placed on, either as it's being placed, or afterwards? 

As I mentioned, it's possible to pick a new host with generic model, but only by picking an element, but it's a guessing game as to which level Revit chooses to associate the element to. In the Properties Palette, the Level Constraint is grayed out and I cannot select which level manually. 

[syman2000]

This is the disadvantage using line base family. However you can still change elevation by clicking on edit workplane

Here you should be able to select your level. You can even select multiple linebase families and modify the workplane.

[mpukas]

That's where my problem lies - I don't get the edit workplace option. This is happening with 2 different generic model families - only one of them is line based, the other is a regular generic model family. 

[mpukas]

@syman2000 BTW - what's that corrugated wall element you used in your example? 

[syman2000]

Where this doesn't work is if the line base is placed in a slope surface or the generic model is set to not always vertical. One way to read the level is to use the room calculation point

When you placed a generic line base or family different plane, then the family will use room to read the level information.

As for corrugated metal, you can download from attachment from the post below.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture-forum/tweaking-a-mullion-profile-on-a-curtain-wall...

[Simon_Weel]

A lot of issues. Placing a Generic Model on a level should be easy, but there are a couple of things to consider. Like the template used. If I create family using the 'Generic Model' template and place it in the project on a floor plan, it's always placed on the level of that floor plan. You can change the level or elevation in the Properties panel. If you don't want that Generic Model to be on a level, you have to change the Family Category parameter Work Plane based:

When placing the Family, you now can toggle between Face Based or Workplane Based (Ribbon). If you later decide you want it on another level, select the family and click Edit Workplane (Ribbon).

If you use the Face Based template, you'll have those options right away, and as a 'bonus', Place on Vertical Face.

As for the randomness of levels for such a family, I'm not sure how that happens. A Plan View has an associated level and if you place elements on that plan view, they will be placed on that level. To change after placing, you have to resort to the Properties panel and / or Ribbon. 

[mpukas]

I'm thinking that part of my issue with lack of control with at least one of these two families is that I created them when I started using Revit back in 2012, and have been updating and modifying them since then. In Family Parameters, the Generic Model window/door trim family does not have the Work Plane-Based option that you're showing, which is also available when creating a new Generic Model Family. 

[mpukas]

When I place the window/door trim family, I do it in a 3D view, so Revit picks whatever level to associate it to it sees fit. The only way to change the level is to use pick new host, and then it's up to Revit to decide which it level it places it on based on where on the wall a point is picked. 

[RSomppi]

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@mpukas wrote:

When I place the window/door trim family, I do it in a 3D view, so Revit picks whatever level to associate it to it sees fit. The only way to change the level is to use pick new host, and then it's up to Revit to decide which it level it places it on based on where on the wall a point is picked. 

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You have control over the level when placing it in a 3D view.

[mpukas]

@RSomppi  thanks for the reply, but I do not get that option with my family. 

[syman2000]

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@mpukas wrote:

I'm thinking that part of my issue with lack of control with at least one of these two families is that I created them when I started using Revit back in 2012, and have been updating and modifying them since then. In Family Parameters, the Generic Model window/door trim family does not have the Work Plane-Based option that you're showing, which is also available when creating a new Generic Model Family. 

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Do you have 2023 version I can look at?

[RSomppi]

You can make it an option, I'm sure. Do you have your family in 2022?

[mpukas]

I saved my most current version in 2024. I've salvaged an older version from an older project, attached here. 

[mpukas]

One would think many things are possible in Revit, but are not. I've saved the family in 2024. I first created it in 2012 +/-, so there may be some issues with an older template limitations.

[RSomppi]

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@mpukas wrote:
One would think many things are possible in Revit, but are not. 

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I've found a number of people say that out of not knowing how much is possible that they thought not.

I still can't look at your family. I've only got up to 2022 installed on this machine.

[mpukas]

family saved from 2020

[ToanDN]

Level association is automatic based on the location of the family.

If you want to manually change Level association, then change the family to Window category.

[mpukas]

@ToanDN Thanks, but I know that. The problem with my family is that I cannot change the level.

Even when selecting a new host in elevation, due to where the "insertion point" is, I cannot be specific about which level it is placed on. Even when it does work, I then have to move the element back in the proper location. When selecting new host, the element doesn't stay in the same place. 

[ToanDN]

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@mpukas wrote:

@ToanDN Thanks, but I know that. The problem with my family is that I cannot change the level.

You change it to a Level by move it to above that Level.

Even when selecting a new host in elevation, due to where the "insertion point" is, I cannot be specific about which level it is placed on. Even when it does work, I then have to move the element back in the proper location. When selecting new host, the element doesn't stay in the same place. 

I never suggested this.

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[mpukas]

@ToanDN Again, I understand what you're suggesting, but it does not work for me. 

The only way I can change the level is to use Pick New Host; then I have to manually select a new host - elevation or 3D - with the cursor, and the element moves with the cursor and is placed wherever I click. I have no control over what level decides to place the element on when selecting a new host.