Equal spacing BETWEEN objects of different sizes. Think window mullions

[payingtoomuch]

I'm ok with the equal feature for simple situations but wondering if there is a down and dirty way to make dimensions between objects the same for differing sized objects.

I have a bank of storefront windows between different sized columns/ mulls and would like the distance BETWEEN the columns/ mulls to be the same. If I go center to center it will not work because the distance between the elements will be different.

I tried dimensioning face to face of "mull", locking the mull dimensions and then setting the equal parameter but that didn't work.

Hopefully there is a solution to this because I have to do this relatively frequently.

Anyone?

[Simon_Weel]

You could use a Global Parameter for the in-between dimensions?

[RDAOU · Accepted solution]

@payingtoomuch 

The distance between the vertical mullions is driven by the distance between the Virtical grids layout...Considering they are of different types, each with a different mullion Type/Dimension, Simply give each a different Virtical Grid Fixed dimension

[payingtoomuch]

Interesting but not sure how this would work. Would i need to calculate manually what the distance between is before I enter it? If so that would defeat the purpose of using the equal toggle right? My guess is I'm not following.

[payingtoomuch]

Simon. See below. Posted my response wrong place. Thanks.

[payingtoomuch]

RDAOU-

That is helpful for the curtain walls and will use it in the future.

Note that I gave the example of my need being similar to curtain wall but technically in this case it's not curtain wall. I need to set spacing between architectural/ structural columns that are different sizes and have the spaces between remain consistent

[payingtoomuch]

Before. applying equal constraints. Note dashed lines at the 2 end columns. They are detail lines so that I can create a reference point for my equal spacing. But when I apply the equal constraint things move around. If going to approach this way I need to figure out some way to lock the dashed lines in place because they are moving. I also need to make sure the OVERALL distance is fixed as the columns/mulls are set back from the face of the walls. I have the columns locked at the 1-1/2 dimensions for now.

AFTER. Same as above but with the equal parameter activated. Not what I'm after.

Another attempt.

Before: Since outside columns are fixed thought I could do something like this and apply the equal constraint.....

After: This is the result. Not following why this won't work. Idea was if I can get this to work I can lock the dims. Then I can go back in and use the equal constraints between the larger columns to locate the Intermediate smaller "columns". See below.

Then I had this thought....

But when I apply the equal constraint I get this....

And when I remove the other constraints as directed I get this....

See next post.... Maxed out here....

[payingtoomuch]

Which is no good either

Where am I missing the boat?

Assuming there is a solution, if I can't remember it from session to session then probably just makes sense to do it the old fashioned autocad way. But would be nice if not too convoluted.

[RDAOU · Accepted solution]

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@payingtoomuch wrote:

RDAOU-

That is helpful for the curtain walls and will use it in the future.

Note that I gave the example of my need being similar to curtain wall but technically in this case it's not curtain wall. I need to set spacing between architectural/ structural columns that are different sizes and have the spaces between remain consistent

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@payingtoomuch 

If I would have known it was a hypothatical question I wouldn't have replied. Nonetheless, the principle of EQ in Curtain walls is very much the same when it comes to structural column. PS: The Detail lines you have placed/used are non-referencial and are irrelevant hence can be ignored all you need is to place/setout the outer most columns where they need to be.

In the example, I placed random columns (random base width) at random distances (Clear distance between the inner faces of the outer most columns fixed Q 24,370m) - target is to have equal distances between the randomly sized arbitrarely placed columns in between:

1. Place a dimension from the center of the exterior most column on the left to the exterior most one to the rich and lock that
2. Place  the dimension string in between the faces of the columns (do not lock)
3. Place the dimension string between the centers of the intrm. columns (do not lock) and the last two columns - Activate EQ for this one

The Gaps between the columns should be equalized (See GIF below)...the last chain will vary/adjust relative to the width of the last interim column if the pattern

[payingtoomuch]

RDAOU- Apologies for the confusion around my example of curtain wall. Yes, I understand (now) that the dashed lines I was trying to reference to won't work.... novice stab at a problem!

That being said, PERFECT! Thanks a bunch for showing me how this is done. Think I have a handle on it now.

So, the way I was attempting to do it I had the outermost columns located and locked by dimensions, but none of the other columns locked. Could that have caused me issues? I think I still need those columns locked/ positioned relative to the wall.

Also wondering why you only need to dimension to the two end intermediate columns? I mean why 2 rather than 1 and why the end columns? And why not/ could you dimension between all the columns and still have it work? These are more or less questions to myself. Will sort through it as I work on the model tomorrow afternoon.

Huge thanks! Will save me a ton of time on this project!!! I have similar conditions all the way around a building clerestory and the locations of all the columns is still in flux!!!! This in and of itself gives me a lot of reason to finally get 100% on the revit bandwagon.

[RDAOU]

@payingtoomuch 

No do not lock or pin the outer columns to anything. That will overconstrain the dimensions and break them. You only need to constrain the distance between the centers the outer most columns or the distance between their inner faces to keep that from changing when you apply the EQ

The key is to apply the equality successfully is in how to the chain the centers of the middle columns (at the bottom) with the last 2 columns at the ends

In the below example placed the additional dim from the end column to the first intrm. column to display the actual dimension...Note the EQ symbol placed at the first link of the chain?

[HVAC-Novice]

I think the missing feature would be what FreeCAD uses for "equal" constraints. 

If there isn't an idea yet, you should create one. 

[payingtoomuch]

RDAOU and others.

Looks like I spoke too soon. Not where I need to be with this. First off I have 3 different size columns and unless I can dimension from face to face some how and have and just apply the equality constraint to those dims only then I see no way of making them all the same. In my way of looking at things dimensioning center to center probably has no meaning in this context.... but I could be missing something.

Seems to me that I should be able to somehow dimension the overall dimenison (per RDAOU's example).... (because the columns are objects and are of fixed dimensions anyway) then "simply" dimension face to face of all the differing columns and make that work somehow.... but no way to tie those dims together and apply the equal constraint. So would need to somehow do a string of dims and RDAOU's example does that but that is not the dimension that has the equal constraint applied. When I create this way it does not work.

This is what I get RDAOU's way. Top 2 "overall" dims are locked with the active dimension string having the equality constraint activated. Note that the 2 outside  column dimensions are different than the interior column dimensions

This is what happens if I change the lower dimension string to face of column at the exterior columns. Similar to above but wider spacing at outside columns.

This worked as I would have expected it to BUT BUT BUT I had to remove constraints in the model to get it to work AND AND AND it CHANGED the OVERALL dimensions which is an obvious complete deal breaker.

Can I not have my walls below locked AND the columns at the end (corners of the building) be located and locked at the 1-1/2" location dimensions as is the case in all the examples?

Short of removing/ unlocking the 1-1/2" dims what other possible constraints would I need to think through to make this work?

If I could even get 2 different size columns to work then I could go back in and center the 3rd intermediate size column between them individually and that would be progress but I can't even make that work.

Seems to me the only way to get this to work would be to assign a point on the face of the columns as the points to dimension to in a manner similar to the way I would handle this situation in vanilla cad.

Assuming I can't make this work with the equality constraints, wondering how everyone would handle "best practice" so at least some of the repeat work would be eliminated if changes occur down the road.

[ToanDN]

You can use a curtain wall with mullions representing the different sized columns and tick the Adjust to Mullion Size box.  That will give equal dimensions between these columns.

[RDAOU]

@payingtoomuch 

You need to use a bit of logic. The same applies if you use a pattern of 10 different types of columns it would still function as below. This can keep on going with someone trying to break it and someone else showing them how to get it work. My suggestion to you is to let it sink, experiment more till you get the hang of it.

Otherwise, if it still doesn't make any sense 🙂 find a workaround or use dynamo...I mean it will work somehow eventually. Don't give up.

[payingtoomuch]

That's an idea that could possibly work. I'll look into it some more. Thanks.

[payingtoomuch]

Thanks for the follow up RDAOU. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't look like the overall dimension in your example is center to center of the outside columns. So, you created a column line that is offcenter of the columns so you can use that as a reference point for the dimension string. I think you're effectively doing what I was describing above as needing to shift the dimension from the only 2 options of face of column and center of column so that things will work out correctly.

Problem with creating that placement point with a column line is that that is not going to make sense in plan for the location.... will be confusing.

I suppose I could turn off the column lines somehow but that's not a wonderful solution.

Maybe I could create a reference line IN a "special" column style to dimension to. Maybe that could work. Would not be the same project to project but would be the same for this project.

I thought I was thinking logically. There are a lot of times that Revit doesn't understand my logic but it's getting better!

[payingtoomuch · Accepted solution]

Success! I was able to get this to work by adding a reference line to the column family. If curious see post titled 

"Editing Column family to add reference point. Some related questions"

[Mike.FORM · Accepted solution]

Here's an excel I whipped up that allows you to figure out the spacing between columns over a total width from out to out.

It allows you to input multiple different column types with sizes and counts and will give you the spacing between.

You can add as many columns as you want be adding new rows to the table.

This works no matter what the arrangement is of the columns, there does not need to be any type of repeating pattern.

[RDAOU]

@payingtoomuch 

Refer to the very first reply with the Curtain Wall example (marked in red below)...thats what the option Adjust for mullion size does. If you uncheck it the eq in a curtain wall would yield EQ in the middle and a slightly smaller gap at the ends. 

In the curtain wall it is done automatically, using non-system families and dimension string chains you would do it manually...and you see, the more you are experimenting the more you are understanding how Revit thinks