Dumb Schedules - parameter conflict and insert data row problems

[Base12]

This seems to be such a common issue, but whenever I find a "Solved" article, it isn't really solved.  Maybe someone can shed some light on this for me.

I know how to create a "Dumb Schedule" using Schedule Keys with an obscure category that is malleable to adding parameters, inserting rows, etc. However, this type of schedule can't be "duplicated" in the Project Browser.  I can do the same thing using  "Schedule Building Components, (which can be duplicated) but then I can't insert "dumb" rows. 

I should note that at some point in the past (previous version of Revit, maybe 2017'ish?) I made some schedules that did allow the addition of rows to be inserted above or below, but now the option to insert rows is grayed out?  Those schedules, while functional were created using a category that was insignificant at the time (curtain panels), but now I have a project that has curtain panels and so those rows are showing up in the schedule that is intended for something else.

I can create a single schedule no problem using either of the methods above.  My problem is I also need to create additional dumb schedules which have some (or all) of the same parameters as the first one.  My example: one schedule that is filled out for roof beams, and a second schedule for floor beams.  Each schedule is going to have the same column headers (Mark, Size, Type, Comments), but when I try to create the second schedule (using the Schedule Keys method) Revit says those parameters already exist and are unavailable - even if I make a new schedule via Schedule Keys under a different obscure category I get the same "in use" error.

How do I access those existing parameters to add them to the new schedule?  Honestly, why is this so hard?

[ToanDN]

You can create actual schedules of components in a different phase that do not affect the actual model.  If the schedule is standards from project to project then you can create another model with such components, link it in, and schedule the linked components only.

You can create generic annotation family with labels and create noteblock schedules.

Both of the above methods let you filter schedules as you see fit.

[Base12]

ToanDN,

Thank you for the suggestion - in this case the "beams" in question are only drafted as lines onto the framing sheets, not actually modeled so there is no component to actually schedule.  Hence the need for a "dumb schedule" that I can just fill out.   I considered making a note block, but it seems equally cumbersome to make a family, literally draw the table using model lines, and creating labels, etc.  I might as well just draw that in the model itself and use text. 

Basically what this boils down to is two things:

1) Why the "insert (a row, not a data row) above or below" option no longer works?  It used to, and still does in older tables I made.

2) Why can't I access the existing parameters in a new table?

[ToanDN]

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@Base12 wrote:

ToanDN,

Thank you for the suggestion - in this case the "beams" in question are only drafted as lines onto the framing sheets, not actually modeled so there is no component to actually schedule.  Hence the need for a "dumb schedule" that I can just fill out.  

That is why I suggested adding actual components in a different phase or in a link.

I considered making a note block, but it seems equally cumbersome to make a family, literally draw the table using model lines, and creating labels, etc.  I might as well just draw that in the model itself and use text. 

An annotation family with a few labels and a noteblock schedule is as simple as anything can be.   Se example:

Basically what this boils down to is two things:

1) Why the "insert (a row, not a data row) above or below" option no longer works?  It used to, and still does in older tables I made.

I have never seen it possible with component schedules, only key schedukes.  If you could then share that file here.

2) Why can't I access the existing parameters in a new table?

Because ONE set of parameters can only be driven by ONE key.  When you create a new key schedule, you create a new Key then you need a new set of parameters under that Key.

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[Base12]

[ToanDN]

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@Base12 wrote:

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Those are not Data rows, but Title rows.  You can type text in there but no columns. 

[Base12]

Inserting columns works just as well.  I'm aware these are title rows, I thought I made that clear in the original post.  In the new "Schedule Building Components" table, I can't add either title or data rows... both are grayed out.

[Base12]

This is what I get now when I make a table using either Key, or Component methods.  I can't insert anything except unique parameters in column form, and no text (title) lines...

[ToanDN]

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@Base12 wrote:

Inserting columns works just as well.  I'm aware these are title rows, I thought I made that clear in the original post.  In the new "Schedule Building Components" table, I can't add either title or data rows... both are grayed out.

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The reasons you cannot add more title rows because your cursor is not in  the title row.  CLick the title row and you can see the button activated.  And again, no, you cannot manually add data rows to any components schedules period.

Is it what you want?

[Base12]

In the old version of the table, I can add columns and rows no matter where the cursor is placed.  In new tables, as you state, I cannot.

[barthbradley]

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@Base12 wrote:

I should note that at some point in the past (previous version of Revit, maybe 2017'ish?) I made some schedules that did allow the addition of rows to be inserted above or below, but now the option to insert rows is grayed out?  

Sounds like you created a Key Schedule with Data Rows of "pre-assigned" Values for custom Project Parameters Fields and then inserted this Key Schedule into a "regular" Schedule as a Parameter Field - as well as inserting the custom Parameter Fields you created via the Key Schedule.    

Create a Key Schedule | Revit 2019 | Autodesk Knowledge Network

[ToanDN · Accepted solution]

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@Base12 wrote:

In the old version of the table, I can add columns and rows no matter where the cursor is placed.  In new tables, as you state, I cannot.

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Because those are title rows, not data rows.

Same as the one below.

[Base12]

Lol, you're right!  It has been so long since I made those tables I had forgotten that I cheated and made the entire table out of title rows and columns.  Hahaha!  Thanks for the exercise of recreating my functional errors!