Door Fire Rating

ericnC2WN4
Observer

Door Fire Rating

ericnC2WN4
Observer
Observer

Hello!

I know that the 'type' vs 'instance' debate when it comes to the fire rating parameter for doors is as old as the ages, but I have one fundamental question...why? Why did Autodesk establish this as a 'type' parameter? I assume that there is a reason why....so why? I am hopeful that an Autodesk employee sees this post and can supply an answer to this question.

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SteveKStafford
Mentor
Mentor

It boils down to the experience of the architects involved in the product originally and their experience with the types of projects they worked on informing their choices. When I got started in architecture I mistakenly thought it's a fairly monolithic kind of profession where we'd all agree on such things. 🙂


Steve Stafford
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Mike.FORM
Advisor
Advisor

The likely reason is that when the developers of Revit added fire ratings they intended users to create new types for elements that are rated.

From a BIM standpoint, a hollow metal door and frame that has a fire rating is a different door than one that does not have a fire rating.

David_W_Koch
Mentor
Mentor

Taking all that @SteveKStafford and @Mike.FORM said into consideration, there is no reason why you have to use the built-in parameter in your projects and schedules.  If an instance-based parameter suits your workflow better, create a shared parameter, make it instance-based, and use that instead.

 

Ask a group of ten architects how to do something, and you will likely get at least eleven or twelve opinions.


David Koch
AutoCAD Architecture and Revit User
Blog | LinkedIn
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ericnC2WN4
Observer
Observer

Sure, I know how to create an instance parameter to handle this situation, and I have done the workflow both ways. Usually when I get into this debate it always devolves into "why did Autodesk code the parameter this way?"...so I thought I would ask. I would like to know the rationale...good, bad, or otherwise.

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HVAC-Novice
Advisor
Advisor

Revit basically provides a few hard-coded parameters. You can use them or not. But Revit also is built to customize (with your own shared or project parameters in this case). 

 

If the native Revit parameter was "instance", people also would have reason to make their own. 

 

FWIW, I use a shared parameter (that also is used as project parameter) I apply to walls, floors, ceilings, roofs, doors, windows, dampers... and probably something else I'm forgetting. That way I can show the fire rating in tags, schedules, or color-code based on it. For walls often it is instance, for doors it is type... really up to you how to do it. Revit gave you all the tools inc. the ability's to create your own parameters. Use them. 

 

You see that some people prefer instance, some type. this all depends on our workflow, schedules, tags etc. Autodesk just assumed a common scenario. For me it actually is very rare that I use hard-coded parameters. For one reason or another, I end up creating my own since I run into these issues that I use them differently than Autodesk intended. 

Revit version: R2025.4
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barthbradley
Consultant
Consultant

You can make the Door Families' In-Built Fire Rating Parameter an Instance Parameter. Is that what you are after? 

 

  1. Open Door Family
  2. Put a value in for Fire Rating Parameter
  3. Recategorize Family from Door to Generic Model Category
  4. Edit Fire Rating Parameter and change it from Type to Instance
  5. Recategorize Family back to Door Category
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barthbradley
Consultant
Consultant

As for why Families (and Templates as well) are built the way they are - maybe there is no rhyme or reason. Maybe Autodesk wasn't even involved in the decision. You would need to talk to the originator of the Family to find out for sure. 

 

By the way, besides changing it in the rfa, you can also change it in the rft.  

 

...I have a guess. It's not that "Type" was chosen. It's that the extra steps to make it "Instance" weren't done.  Maybe that work wasn't included in the contract.  

SteveKStafford
Mentor
Mentor

@barthbradley wrote:

As for why Families (and Templates as well) are built the way they are - maybe there is no rhyme or reason. Maybe Autodesk wasn't even involved in the decision.


Yup, Revit Technology Corporation staff made all of the foundational decisions from 1998-2002 and Autodesk bought them in 2002...and many of the earliest staff remained on the team for at least a year afterward...or in some cases many years afterward. I could probably name the person who made the final decision guided by the architects working alongside...but that's not my place. They definitely made the choice intentionally, they didn't do anything (then or now) arbitrarily.


Steve Stafford
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ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

A non fire rated and a fire rated door assemblies are different enough to be of different types.  Instance parameters more like a paint color, or hardware group.  It, however, is up to you. Nothing prohibits you from using an instance parameter for fire rating.

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barthbradley
Consultant
Consultant

I stand corrected, @SteveKStafford.

 

Fire Rating was purposely made a Type Parameter by a Company whose name originates from the phrase "Revise Instantly".

 

Good to know.  

 

...love you man.  😉

 

 

KaseyWelles
Explorer
Explorer

My thoughts are that the door geometry doesn't change enough to warrant a different door type. The data included in the model and schedule is what makes a door fire rated in Revit. I believe the efficiency of changing a fire rating instance parameter if a door rating changes is difficult to argue against. Since the door geometry of a fire rated doesn't change, I don't see the value in changing the door type to indicate this. I'm open to criticism though ;). 

 

Edit: I'll add that not all data deserves and instance parameter. If the data will vary, but the geometry stays the same the data parameter should be an instance parameter to avoid excessive type duplication. 

Type a product name

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We use StackAdapt to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by StackAdapt. Ads are based on both StackAdapt data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that StackAdapt has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to StackAdapt to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. StackAdapt Privacy Policy
The Trade Desk
We use The Trade Desk to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by The Trade Desk. Ads are based on both The Trade Desk data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that The Trade Desk has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to The Trade Desk to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. The Trade Desk Privacy Policy
RollWorks
We use RollWorks to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by RollWorks. Ads are based on both RollWorks data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that RollWorks has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to RollWorks to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. RollWorks Privacy Policy

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We can access your data only if you select "yes" for the categories on the previous screen. This lets us tailor our marketing so that it's more relevant for you. You can change your settings at any time by visiting our privacy statement

Your experience. Your choice.

We care about your privacy. The data we collect helps us understand how you use our products, what information you might be interested in, and what we can improve to make your engagement with Autodesk more rewarding.

May we collect and use your data to tailor your experience?

Explore the benefits of a customized experience by managing your privacy settings for this site or visit our Privacy Statement to learn more about your options.