Company logo design in Revit: filled region using curved lines is inaccurate both on screen and in pdfs: please help

[peter]

I seem to be having issues with producing accurate filled regions in my families.  Filled regions with curved lines just don't seem to work.  I can print most things at 144dpi and they look just fine.  However, as soon as I introduce filled regions with curved lines using native Revit editing tools, I get very poor reproduction.  Screen appearance in the Revit file is inaccurate because the curved lines are converted to segmented lines on screen (see attachment 01).  In the pdfs it is worse because not only are the curved lines segmented lines, but they don't even meet at the end point with straight lines in the region (see attachment 02).

Is there any way to resolve this?

[Lachlan-JWP]

Create the logo in a vector graphics program and import it into Revit.

If you absolutely have to do this in Revit then try using raster printing in your print settings.

[ToanDN]

Create the logo in AutoCAD and import it in a generic annotation family. Do not explode the CAD import.

[syman2000]

Can you upload the sample RFA so we can take a look?

[peter]

Thank you all for your replies.

So, is it the case that Revit can print AutoCAD fill patterns imported to annotation families using Vector graphics, but it can't print its own fill patterns without converting them to raster images first?

If so, then my workaround is to export the family from Revit to CAD, set up multiple files in CAD (one for each required visibility type) and then import them back into a generic annotation family in Revit.  Then set up the visibility settings again in the family.  What a right royal pain.

It seems that I spend a disproportionate amount of time explaining to people why Revit is actually a great program but you just have to find a "workaround".

@peter - this post has been edited due to Community Rules & Etiquette violation.

[peter]

Update: disregard some of my previous comments.

On further examination, it seems that filled regions in a Revit Detail Item family print out as raster images.  Also, if I import an AutoCAD dwg with hatched areas into a Detail Item family, it prints the hatching as a raster image, the same as for the native Revit detail.  

Lines that are simple orthogonal ones or circles, for example, are printed off as vector images but it seems that other lines may be printed as raster images.

Strange, I've been working in Revit for a while now and I've never noticed this before.  It's only that I have recently moved companies and the company logo is more complex than at my previous company.

I can't think of a workaround for this one, apart from beefing up the linework to cover up the rasterisation of the filled regions in the Revit solution (of this works).

Was anyone else aware of this?  Am I missing something simple? (it wouldn't be the first time, and I'm not the Lone Ranger on this one, I'm sure).  

[peter]

P.S. This is a right bl00dy pain 😁  Anybody got any suggestions?  Will I get Dion to add the issue to his blog page?

Some added screenshots:  if I copy the logo to a legend, the logo looks better on screen (04.png compared to 05.png) but still plots off exactly the same (06.png).  Just added this because I thought I had a possible workaround for a moment. 

 

 

 

@peter - this post has been edited due to Community Rules & Etiquette violation.

[RDAOU]

@peter 

Why are you drafting a logo instead of putting it together where it should be designed Photoshop or Illustrator) then bringing it as an image or a pdf?! 

Its a waste of time!!! tracing Fonts and logos in a CAD software...People stopped doing that even before Revit became a thing

[peter]

Unfortunately, Revit exports dwgs with the images as separate files and this always looks unprofessional to me.  Then it depends on a third party with unknown levels of skill to print them out correctly. This is why I prefer the logo as a native Revit detail.   

Furthermore, images would still print in raster format so would not have clean lines.  They can also create issues in themselves when you try to print them to pdf at higher resolutions in Revit (in case you aren't aware of this). 

I could model it in 3D in Rhino or Revit if I wanted to and get clean lines.  This gets a better end result than drawing it in Illustrator.

Instead of criticising users of the software when they just expect basic functionality, why don't you spend your time asking Autodesk to improve the basic functionality of their stuff.  Is that too much to ask?  Oh, you're an Autodesk sycophant and like to suck up to your master, is that it?

@peter - this post has been edited due to Community Rules & Etiquette violation.

[RDAOU]

@peter 

1. That was a question (why don't you use PDF) and a fact (Tracing logos and fonts is a waste of time during which you could be more productive) ... you being too touchy and finding that nonconstructive, isn't my problem... 
2. Edit: Communication Skills Course - Please refer back to your last 3 replies...no further comments on that point.
3. Reaster of Vector, imported PDF Logos print just fine 
4. Unknown Third party level of skill? We expect a minimum level of skill from all those we work with and printing a document with external references and images usually rank at Data entry level. 
5. Modeling Logos is not a basic functionality of a CAD software. If you feel that it is, you could post an Idea on the Revit Ideas forum. I think I have seen a not so popular similar idea on that forum but the user was also asking for color correction option. 
6. Autodesk Sycophant...I found that quite funny because as a matter of fact Autodesk and I are not on very good terms

[peter]

1. You are patently skilled in talking down to people aren't you?  I wonder how many other people you raise the heckles with.  Touchy???  No, I just expect better that's all.  I appear to have much higher standards than you do when it comes to successful communications.  That is why I suggested to course to you to add to your string of paperwork.
2. Raster or vector – well that is the issue is it not, but it remains unaddressed.
3. You obviously live in a perfect world of academia and enlightenment. Unfortunately, I live in the real world, and I do not get to choose which companies I am contracted to work with.
4. I am only talking about basic functionality.  It is not just about logo’s; it is about ANY detailed item.  There is a basic flaw in the software as it stands.  I have layouts that plot with vector objects printing as raster images in the midst of their vector surroundings and they stand out like sore thumbs.
5. Well, I’m glad that you are amused because, frankly, we are not amused at all.

[RDAOU]

@peter 

1. Again it was a suggestion. You are free to digest that in which ever way you feel best. And if stating that tracing over logos is a waste of time triggered all those emotions, I do not feel obliged to apologize. It is simply an opinion. If you expect others to accept yours, you are compelled to accept theirs too. Right?
2. I did not claim that the software is perfect. Nonetheless, we have no issues with Raster printing (at least no significant issues that are worth ranting about). Maybe Revit is not perfect at Raster printing but if one is to be fair, when we talk Raster Printing there are other external factors at play. Revit is not solely the root cause of the problem.
3. We do not live in a perfect world of academia; however, we do set standards and per-qualifications for those who we work with and we do demand that they to do the same. That is not because we look down on people but only to avoid issues similar to this. It does come at a cost though (Monetary)
4. The Original Post was on company logo. What you are raising now are various issues which you are apparently struggling with. However, following your attitude in this post, I have no interest in making any suggestion which might help.
5. This is a user forum. Some people are here looking for solutions, suggestions and/or workaround; other are here just to rant. I do find the latter somewhat amusing...sometimes.

Good luck 

[ToanDN]

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@peter wrote:

Update: disregard some of my previous comments.

On further examination, it seems that filled regions in a Revit Detail Item family print out as raster images.  Also, if I import an AutoCAD dwg with hatched areas into a Detail Item family, it prints the hatching as a raster image, the same as for the native Revit detail.  

No.  They print out as vector graphics unless you deliberately set Revit to print to raster.  When you zoom in a raster, you see square pixels, not diagonal segments, evidently.

Lines that are simple orthogonal ones or circles, for example, are printed off as vector images but it seems that other lines may be printed as raster images.

Again, No.

Strange, I've been working in Revit for a while now and I've never noticed this before.  It's only that I have recently moved companies and the company logo is more complex than at my previous company.

I can't think of a workaround for this one, apart from beefing up the linework to cover up the rasterisation of the filled regions in the Revit solution (of this works).

Importing + not exploding CAD in a Revit family has already been suggested.  Using PDF or image has also been suggested.  Either works. 

Was anyone else aware of this?  Am I missing something simple? (it wouldn't be the first time, and I'm not the Lone Ranger on this one, I'm sure).  

---

[Lachlan-JWP]

Everyone I've every met and every method I've researched for using graphics in Revit uses an inserted image for logos, its the fastest, cleanest and easiest method. If they still don't print clearly, then it's a problem at your end. Likely with graphics or printer drivers.

As for the other printing issues (filled region edges) that could be a symptom of the same issue.

[Chaikampa]

I can totally relate to OP here. Don't be discouraged by other peoples mediocracy 🙂

I had three issues with the current revit solution:

1. the image (logo) is not embedded to the sheet when exported dwg. so basically it's lost, looks umprofessional imo.
2. I have to choose between poor image quality in the logo, or a large pdf file size.
3. My company has a logo in the left corner of the sheet as well. so they had to create one family for every sheet size, because the "visible" parameter doesn't work on images. this was a pain in the .. when we had to update or do some custom project changes to the sheet(s).

My solution to the problem was to create a Hatch of the logo in autocad (only hatch, no lines), import it to a generic annotation family and then insert it to the sheet family. This solved all my problems. 

TIP: when importing the dwg, import with a custom larger scale. Then scale back down afterwords. If i imported the logo with its real scale the results were not good, i.e. the voids in the letters were filled with colour and some small elements came without color.

Example: one of the letters in my logo from pdf print.

[peter]

Hi Chaikampa,

Thank you for that suggestion.

I have used the method of scaling up an AutoCAD detail before inserting it, but I didn't think of using it for logos, so thank you for your idea. 

It is encouraging that someone is willing to come up with a solution rather than to make uninformed and inflationary comments like some on here do.  Well done.

[peter]

I can now advise that I've tried  Chaikampa's method (outlined previously) on a few projects and it works well.

Here is a blow up of part of a logo that I did for a Client (from the pdf).

This is much clearer that an imported image file.

In addition, it avoids the annoyance of having separate logos produced when exporting to AutoCAD (we have Clients who demand AutoCAD versions of files in addition to Revit and pdf's).