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Cavity closer plaster return.

19 ANTWORTEN 19
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Nachricht 1 von 20
Anonymous
3304 Aufrufe, 19 Antworten

Cavity closer plaster return.

Does anyone have any idea how to return the internal plaster across the cavity closer and into the door /window frame? The plaster always stops at the cavity closer no matter what you do with the wrap setting.
I've been using Revit for over ten years now and this has bugged me the whole time. It's only a small thing but very annoying! Somebody must be able to help! Please!!
19 ANTWORTEN 19
Nachricht 2 von 20
rodrigo.bezerra
als Antwort auf: Anonymous

Hi @Anonymous

 

I'm not sure if I got it, but I'll try anyway. Have you tried to work with your "wall closure" planes inside your families?

 

Regards

Rodrigo Bezerra

EESignature

Nachricht 3 von 20
Anonymous
als Antwort auf: Anonymous

REFERENCE EML-OUT/Autodesk/20150914-100738-711
Thanks Rodrigo

I shall give it a try.

Regards,

Rob Winzar M.C.I.A.T.
Director
Axis Architecture Limited * Chartered Practice
The Old Post Office, Station Road, Wickham, Hants. PO17 5JA
w: http://www.axisarchitecture.co.uk
e: rob.winzar@axismail.co.uk
m: 07954 376410
t: 01329 832405
Axis Architecture has a brand new web site, follow the link above to see our latest news and projects.
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Nachricht 4 von 20
Anonymous
als Antwort auf: Anonymous

I've tried looking at the wrap planes in the family but I don't think this is the problem.

 

If you look at the attached drawing you will see what I am getting at.

 

Any ideas on how to return the plaster line all the way into the window frame across the front of the cavity closer would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks

Nachricht 5 von 20
GHASEM_ARIYANI
als Antwort auf: Anonymous

 

hi

 

If you want to adjust the length of the wrap,  Must return to the family environment (Door or window).

 

1-In the family editorm create a Ref.plane and add a parameter.

 

1.png

 

2-select Ref.plane then in the properties dialog , active wall Closure parameter.

 

2.png

 

3- cretae dimensuion parameter.

 

3.png

 

Now go back to the project, You can set the length Wraps of the door or window settings

Please use " Accept as Solution", and give kudos as appropriate to further enhance these forums. Thank you!
Nachricht 6 von 20
Anonymous
als Antwort auf: GHASEM_ARIYANI

Thanks for the advice but unfortunately that is still not the issue, Sorry!

Most standard Revit doors and windows already have 'wrap layer' dimensions associated to reference planes and perameters to adjust the length of the wrap in relation to the external or internal planes.

 

The problem is that the plaster 'wrap' won't go across the front of the cavity closer into the window / door frame.

 

Please see my sketch previously uploaded.

 

Sorry to keep on about this but it's a fundemental flaw and I can't understand why no one has noticed it before ! 

 

Thanks again for trying.

 

 

Nachricht 7 von 20
macdonaldi
als Antwort auf: Anonymous

Hi Rob, 

Trying to do the same thing. Did you find a solution to the problem?

Nachricht 8 von 20
Anonymous
als Antwort auf: macdonaldi

Hello, no not found a solution thus far! I usually end up with a cut profile to draw the plaster return into the window frame. It's a bit long winded especially if there are lots of windows, but sadly the only way I've found to do it properly.

Would appreciate any ideas you may have.



Best regards



Rob


Nachricht 9 von 20
paulwoddy
als Antwort auf: Anonymous

Hello Rob,

If you haven't already got an answer for this then perhaps I can help.

The solution is to create a window with a VOID cut instead of an OPENING cut. Essentially, A void can only cut through the host, perpendicular to the surface, and hence all materials will be flush. If you delete the opening from a window family and create a void which is stepped in and out of the different materials, combined with the use of the aforementioned reference planes marked as wrap points, and you will be able to get what you need.

Let me know if you need a sample or further explanation.

Paul Woddy

Nachricht 10 von 20
Anonymous
als Antwort auf: paulwoddy

Hi Paul



Thanks for the suggestion, it's much appreciated.



Sounds a little complex, could you possibly send me an example window?



Many thanks



Best regards



Rob Winzar




Nachricht 11 von 20
paulwoddy
als Antwort auf: Anonymous

Hello Rob,

If you look at the example here, you can see a number of techniques in play.

 

Control over the wrapping on plan is done as I described, with a void instead of an Opening to cut the shape out of the wall. This means that the opening can be whatever shape I require. Wrapping points are then controlled using the reference planes and cavity-closer detail components are nested into the window to auto-detail the element at a fine Level of Detail. Wrapping returns only work in plan views unfortunately, so we have to use a slightly different method in section. Here I have applied masking regions and a nested detailed component to fake the plasterboard wrapping around at the top of the window. The Void shape means that the opening is still accurate in 3D, but the regions are required to make the wall layers look correct. Nested detail components for the lintel and cavity-closer also added in section. Note that the inner leaf of the wall stands slightly proud at the bottom of the window, so that the Window board sits in place with a tolerance gap beneath, without the gap being visible in the room.

 

Hopefully this all makes sense - it is one of the final stages of our component creation courseware, and so there are quite a few techniques involved to get to this level.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Woddy

Nachricht 12 von 20
Anonymous
als Antwort auf: paulwoddy

Hi Paul, many thanks for the example window, it certainly does solve the problem, however it would be quite a complex process to modify the standard Revit windows (and doors)  if I needed to use a different window/door type.

Not sure either if your example is parametric?

It's a shame that AutoDesk can't update all the standard window / door families to resolve this issue?

Once again many thanks for the advice.

Regards

Rob 

Nachricht 13 von 20
paulwoddy
als Antwort auf: Anonymous

Rob,

Yes it is parametric, but I agree, it would be very time consuming to convert the default supplied windows and doors, but what I would advise (and teach) is that over time, we forget the standard library and look to replace it with an intelligent library. What I mean by this is that we create proper door/window templates with all the features of the sample that I sent. We then create a library of Profiles, Detail Items and Generic sub-parts, all with common insertion points and parameter naming. This will mean that creation of a new window or door style is more about assembling from parts, rather than starting from scratch each time. If we assume that each project can justify the creation of at least one style, then it would not take long to build up common examples.


This may sound overly complex, but is more about a systematic mindset with regard to content creation. (Sales pitch: As you will see in my latest book!!).

 

As for the desire that Autodesk resolve the issue, we must remember that they are dealing with the different standard construction methods of the entire world - what we think is absolute sense may not tally with other geographies. It's a cop-out I know, but one that I have come to live with over my 18 years of teaching Revit - I no longer expect Autodesk to know and supply the quality and specification of content that I want. What they do supply are treated as generic place-holders.

 

Hope it helps,

Paul

Nachricht 14 von 20
ToanDN
als Antwort auf: Anonymous

See attached 2018 file.  The only thing I need to do is edit Cut Profile for the section (I did for the sill only so you can see the original unedited condition at the head).  The plan wraps properly however you want.

 

Capture.PNG

Nachricht 15 von 20
paulwoddy
als Antwort auf: ToanDN

Always two ways to skin a cat...

 

Same principle, but different angle.

Nachricht 16 von 20
Anonymous
als Antwort auf: ToanDN

Thanks for the window detail, looks like it also solves my problem.
I've had a look at the family but can't figure out how it works?
Does the window frame cut the wall as well as the void?
Many thanks
Rob
Nachricht 17 von 20
Anonymous
als Antwort auf: paulwoddy

Hi Paul, where can I get your new book?
Nachricht 18 von 20
paulwoddy
als Antwort auf: Anonymous

Hi Rob,

Thanks for noticing the subtle hint! Smiley (fröhlich)

 

Once finished, it will be available as a printed book or electronically. Should put the final polish to it within the next ten days and I can let you know. Email me and I will send details.

 

paul@whitefrog.co

Nachricht 19 von 20
ToanDN
als Antwort auf: Anonymous


@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for the window detail, looks like it also solves my problem.
I've had a look at the family but can't figure out how it works?
Does the window frame cut the wall as well as the void?
Many thanks
Rob

Can I assume you asking me (sorry I can't tell with the new forum interface)?

 

- Host window: no geometry, only an Opening Cut, the boundary is offset from the actual Window dimension to make it slightly smaller

- Nested window: no Opening Cut; I added a wall based void the exact same size with the window and cut the wall.  Load it in the host Window and associate parameters then it will cut the wall in the host window.

- In summary, the wall will cut by a Void and a smaller Opening Cut to create the wrapping effect.

Nachricht 20 von 20
Anonymous
als Antwort auf: ToanDN

Hi, thanks for the explanation, I think I get it!


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