Adaptive Family hosted in an adaptive Family

[Berger.Simon]

Hi all,

i created an adaptive Family with a lot of formulas running the Family via a few Instance Parameters.

Now i have one problem. I need the Family to be repeated when i load it into a project, but need the flexibility to change every repeated element seperately.

I read in the forum that there is no way like in AutoCAD to explode it like a block in a block, but to be honest that's the thing I'm looking for.

I tried to host my Main Family in a second adaptive Family on a divided Path and linked all parameters to Instance Parameters to control them in the project.

An issue is that i don't have always the same widths but if i change one of the repeated Elements all others are changing too, of course.

For me it's okay to copy the Family to ensure the flexibility of every single one. But it would be a big benefit for those who are planning with the Family i created if they would not have to place every single "Family" manually.

Maybe an adaptive Family is the wrong way to go and you have another option or idea how i could try it or to fix my problem.

I hope that someone has already gained experience with this topic or perhaps has another solution for me.
Thanks in advance and I look forward to possible ideas and solutions and maybe to hearing from some of you soon.

Best Regards,

Simon

[Luiscko]

In Revit existing parameter Type that if you modified are the changes apply in all the instances with this type name and there is another that is instance parameter i recommend you that changes you parameters to instance parameter if you want to modified in each element.

I show you one example.

[Berger.Simon]

Thank you Luiscko for the fast response.

I'm sorry that i have to mask formulas and names of the Parameters i have in the project.

I've nearly all kinds of Parameters in my Family.

I'm using Shared parameters as well as Family parameters, Type and Instance.

All parameters with DimXX are Shared parameters / Instance (first picture).

The parameters on the second picture are all Family parameters / Instance.

Right now i got about 150 Parameters in the Family which controls my reference points.

When i load the family in the project i get Dimension parameters, Controlling parameters and a drop down menu which i can change as i like.

My Question was not about the Parameters in specific.

I can change everything i want with the parameters in the project.

My Problem is that i have an adaptive family nested in another adaptive family and i need it repeated.

When i repeat the Family, as the name suggests, the "new" Elements are just Replicates and if i change one of them all others will change too.

[Luiscko]

In your principal family you need to put equals in the factor that you want to change and then in the nested family the thing that i recommend you is that you add more that one nested family with the parameters that you want to change in this case you can have some groups, the thing is that you can't see your instance parameters in a nested family and in this case you can equal to another parameter in your principal family this is the problem the only way that i think is that.

[Berger.Simon]

I think i don't get you! I really don't know what you're trying to tell me.

I have one adaptive family (family 1). I nested family 1 in another adaptive family (family 2) and repeated family 1 along a divided path with a fixed distance.

When i load family 2 in a project, i can place the family with 2 placement points (adaptive). The divided path between the placement points is changing according to the distance of the placing points and i get more or less repeated families (family 1).

But the problem is when i load a family with repeated families in a project i have 1 repeated family and I'm not able to change the families (family 1) seperatly. That means if i change one of the repeated elements in the project, all other changes too.

And I'm not able to put more of this family 1 in family 2 (not repeating) because i need a full flexibility and there are possibilities that i only need one family 1 at a time.

That's the reason why a repeated family would work perfect if i would be able to explode the highest family where i just nested the main family in and repeated it.

I hope it's a bit more clear what I'm trying to say.

[Luiscko]

I really don't  understand you because i don't see the purpose but maybe Dynamo could you help more that the path that you are follow right now.

[ToanDN]

After repeat an adaptive family on a surface of a mass or another adaptive family, you can remove the repeater and manually change each instance to a different type or change parameters for each instance independently from others.

[Berger.Simon]

We are creating families for our company and most of the people are not used to Revit or Dynamo.

I just wanted to try to make an adaptive family for this people, which they can place with two points in the project and have everything they need.

The adaptive family is a system of our company with many single part components. They are used to "assemble" the system in the project, but i want to have a whole system as family with the calculation behind that they don't have to place single parts or just one element.
Most common are large scale projects so it would or better said could be a big time saving benefit.

And as always when something new is coming they don't want to use Dynamo for example. That are technicians working with the families we create, most of them don't have specific trainings or anything comparable.

That's the main reason why i tried to place the whole system with just two points.

[Berger.Simon]

But i can only remove it in the family by editing it, not in the project directly, right?

The family, as mentioned, should be a whole system and that means that i wanna place this family a few times in the whole project.
Most of the people using this family never built a family and if there is any chance to i don't want that they need to edit the family. Just to change the parameters of the family in the project in properties.
Normally the family is going to be placed on walls.

[ToanDN]

If you make the panel family shared then you maybe able to edit it in project. Worst case, create an ij place mass in project to host the adaptive family.

Can you show what you are trying to build? The amount of parameters in the family is excessive and the one point of using an adaptive family is to reduce formulas and constraints.

[Berger.Simon]

That's the family I'm talking about.

I just placed the family on one wall to show it. Normally we have complex structures and shapes.

1. an adaptive family (with nested families) in the project

2. The "single" family copied along the wall

Every Instance (of course) is editable and i can change every single element as i like to.

Just for demonstration. Like its shown in the picture is not common but should be possible.

3. the adaptive family nested in another adaptive family and repeated

I got 4 repeated elements in 1 family. The whole "family" as shown is just placed by two points and repeated along a divided path between the two adaptive placement points.

I could choose one of these 4 and change the parameters, but every single element changes too, because they are just repeated.

[Luiscko]

The reason is the same that i told you you create a family with array i think soo, and the array is a group of elements that repeat each element with separation, there is two ways for that family the first one y use another family that you can use or no like void and you can cut your geometry where ever you like or for me the easy one is that you create only the principal family and use Dynamo to put the families like the formwork with this particular geometry.The another one is that you use multiples families to obtain the same result one to start bottom with some elevation another with diferent elevation but in the same location and another longer to do this thing that you want.

[Anonymous]

When you nested the adaptive family in the other,

did you "reassign" the parameter from the child family to mother family...?

If not, you won't be supposed to change anything in the main family, only make duplicates of it...

If so, I'm afraid that within the array is very limitating for the purpose of your family...

You can try to create different "families" for each number repetition, and each one has a paramter that drives each "istance" parameter...

It's a bit sloppy, but if you have a limited number of repetitions on each wall, it can be time saver although....

[Alfredo_Medina]

@Berger.Simon 

If you use a repetition in adaptive family or in-place mass, use Remove Repeater. Then, you can modify the items.

If you use an array in a generic family, make the array without the group option, or if you do use that option, ungroup the items after making the array, then you can modify the items.

[Berger.Simon]

Yeah i did it the way you asked for.
I "reassigned" every instance parameter with new parameters to be able to change them.

I also tried to  make an array within the project but i can't see a benefit to copying the family and have "single" families in the project.

I know what you mean but that's the problem, I'm not able to say how many repetitions I'll have. There are too many different factors influencing it.

But thank you for the fast answer.

[Berger.Simon]

But in that case i have to edit the family in the project.
I would need a repeated family with the possibility to change every single repeated element. But if for example the wall changes for some reason the family should adapt automatically, that's the reason why i would need the repetition but also the chance to change single elements.

The problem with the generic model is that the family is built as an adaptive family, that's the reason why I'm only able to use the array directly in the project.

I'm very grateful for the many different suggestions and solutions, but i don't think any works the way i hope it does.

[Luiscko]

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[Berger.Simon]

Sorry but i don't get it what you want to say?!

Could you explain what you mean with this picture?

[hoda.ganji]

Would using Dynamo help, see in this video: "Adaptive Component Revit Family (4pt) + Dynamo, Pyramid Façade Design": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDd29w0rJXk&list=PLnQTukI1DJvwzw86K4SlJDRoSQ7dK9fS9&index=8

This video shows how we can create a 4-point Adaptive Revit family and populate it in Dynamo, and how to go back and forth between Dynamo and Revit family parameters.