Acquired Coordinates Not Affecting Separate Alignment

[jeremy_taylor]

It's entirely possible I am missing the intention of acquire/publish. My end goal is to have an otherwise empty project that all design models are linked into using auto methods to guarantee alignment.

I have a MEP model and an Arch model. If I try to link the MEP model into the Arch model using any auto method the alignment is clearly wrong.

The MEP model was delivered already setup to link in the Arch model and it is correctly aligned once it all opens. It's worth noting that all other models (food service, etc.) align to Arch origin to origin with no issues. I would expect that I can acquire coordinates from the linked Arch model, save the MEP model with these new coordinates, and then say, open the Arch model and link MEP using auto shared coordinates and it align.

That is not the case, it still comes in as if I never changed anything at all. I have checked both models for Shared Sites and there are none.

[ToanDN]

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@jeremy_taylor wrote:

At seconds 0:45-0:48 you link in the Arch file to the newly created project from template.

At 1:02-1:04 you acquire coordinates from Arch into the newly created project from template.

You spend some time copy/monitoring the grids

NOW, at 1:40-1:51 you save this newly created project from template containing the linked Arch file to a file called MEP

It is thus no surprise when you open Arch and link in "MEP" that they align; they contain the same file and thus coordinates.

No.  They are two different files: MEP file and Arch file.  They share the same coordinates because of the act of acquiring coordinates.  I could detach the Arch link from the MEP after acquiring coordinates and the result would be exactly the same.

I don't have the luxury of replacing my MEP file with a file that contains the Arch link. I am going to have to bring the pre-existing MEP file in non-destructively.

This is your statement:

@jeremy.taylor wrote:

No, I am not currently modeling anything. I just want an empty project with all the design models linked in with correct alignment.

Nobody asked you to replace your MEP with a new one.  Since you MEP file is empty:

- Remove the existing Arch link

- Reset Shared Coordinates

- Make sure the plan view's orientation is Project North, not cropped

- Link Arch in again using any positioning option except Shared coordinates (auto PBP to PBP is preferred)

- Acquire coordinates

- Copy monitor grids and levels

I'm open to the idea that the Arch link inside the MEP file was simply moved and pinned and there is no non-manual way to get the same alignment with the two files independently.

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[jeremy_taylor]

Maybe there is a misunderstanding of what I am beginning with? I have a fully populated with building geometry Arch model from a designer. I have a wholly separate but fully populated with MEP system geometry MEP model from another designer. I, personally, haven't begun modeling anything but there is a whole lot of modeling already having taken place. I want both of these files linked into my own otherwise empty project but aligned with each other as I know they can be. Once that is done, I would like to begin my modeling in this project using those linked files as points of reference for coordination purposes.

What I did not see you do was bring two files with different coordinates together in one project. I am specifically trying to avoid having to individually open any future updates to either design model to muck with the coordinates so that they will work in my federated project. I was expecting I could have the federated project apply the appropriate "transforms" to any future updates to the links since I would presume those aspects of the newer models would be unchanged from the previous.

[ToanDN]

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@jeremy_taylor wrote:

Maybe there is a misunderstanding of what I am beginning with? I have a fully populated with building geometry Arch model from a designer. I have a wholly separate but fully populated with MEP system geometry MEP model from another designer. I, personally, haven't begun modeling anything but there is a whole lot of modeling already having taken place. I want both of these files linked into my own otherwise empty project but aligned with each other as I know they can be. Once that is done, I would like to begin my modeling in this project using those linked files as points of reference for coordination purposes.

What I did not see you do was bring two files with different coordinates together in one project. I am specifically trying to avoid having to individually open any future updates to either design model to muck with the coordinates so that they will work in my federated project. I was expecting I could have the federated project apply the appropriate "transforms" to any future updates to the links since I would presume those aspects of the newer models would be unchanged from the previous.

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- Detach both the Arch and the other MEP links from you model

- Reset Shared Coordinates

- Link the Arch file in, PBP to PBP positioning, Acquire Coordinates

- Link the other MEP in, Auto Shared Coordinates positioning

[jeremy_taylor]

That didn't quite work, either. That said, while I was in situ I just moved the MEP and rotated using the grids as references and for each change I got a popup about having moved the Saved Site locations with an option to save now, which I did. This seems to be what I was after for now with some incredulity as to how it hold up with future updates.

[ToanDN]

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@jeremy_taylor wrote:

That didn't quite work, either. That said, while I was in situ I just moved the MEP and rotated using the grids as references and for each change I got a popup about having moved the Saved Site locations with an option to save now, which I did. This seems to be what I was after for now with some incredulity as to how it hold up with future updates.

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It didn't quite work at which step(s)?

[jeremy_taylor]

All steps went fine it's just that the MEP was still offset and rotated. I manually moved and rotated and wrote the Site Location back to it. New updates from design I presume I will have to do the same?

[barthbradley]

I think I may know what's going on. The Survey Point Origin is FAR, FAR away from the Project Internal Origin. It's kind of what I was alluding to went I asked you about GIS Coordinates.  

Screenshot or tell us what the x.y.z Coordinates of the ARCH Project Survey Point are.  Barring that, try this:  start from scratch and BEFORE Acquiring any Coordinates from ARCH, UNCLIP the Survey Point.  

....also screenshot us a pix of the Location and Site: Site Tab AFTER you Acquire Coordinates of the ARCH Link.  

[jeremy_taylor]

The survey points were at or very near the PBPs in all models.

I've come to the conclusion that I was overcomplicating the whole thing. Using grids as reference, I just moved and rotated the MEP model link into position in my project which should also hold that position for any future updates of the same model.

I did walk away with far less understanding and faith in coordinate acquisition, though.

[barthbradley]

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@jeremy_taylor wrote:

I did walk away with far less understanding and faith in coordinate acquisition, though.

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3 pages and 48 message later, and you walk away with LESS understanding???  That's a record!  

Maybe learning Revit through Q&A isn't the best method for you. Maybe book learning is better.  

One reading suggestion for you: Paul Aubin's "The Revit Theory of Relativity: Understanding
Shared Coordinates".  Google it.  

Good luck.