2024 topography - cut is fine, what about fill?

[amarkovi]

I understand the advantages of the new way of manipulating the topography, however pads were a much quicker solution in modelling a terrain.

Prior to 2024 if you wanted to "dig" a part of the terrain you made a shape in plan view and placed it at a desired height - cut or fill it did what it needed to do - for example, on a sloped terrain you could have half of the pad in the cut and the other half filled, all in one action.

Now in 2024 you have to create a void to cut part of the terrain, and then model the filled part separately. And if you have a simple shape of the building in contact with the terrain it's a few points (you still have to align each point two times to get it exactly to a corner, for example). However if your foundation has a more complex shape, the only solution is to place a whole bunch of points and then micro-position them? Is there a quicker option to create fills?

This new workflow, it seems, is just so time consuming...

Also, it is cool that the new topography "wraps" around the foundation of a wall, however that representation is not accurate. Revit will subtract the volume of the wall and its foundation from the total volume of the topography, however in real life the digging (cut) would be bigger than the volume of the concrete, and then there would be a fill on top of the foundation. The total (net) amount of earth will be the same, the net cut/fill number in Revit - however in a bill of quantities the digging and filling are two different works...

Like I said, the new topography tool certainly has some advantages - but I sometimes wonder if developers communicate with real users when making decisions. 

[peterverginer1]

Any news on this? Im coming from another Software and would eventually switch to Revit in future. Its very important for me to model temporary excavation and the refill to a new proposed terrain for mass calculation (Also to refill below foundations where earth has been temporary removed to build levels below). And also to refill to a proposed terrain above underground structures. I would eventually model existing terrain and proposed terrain in Civil3D and import the TIN to Toposolid, as i am used to work in different programs for enviroment and buildings.

Eventually i could also design the temporary excavation directly in Civil3D, but i think i will always need a way to generate some toposolids around my buildings.

[loboarch]

Revit does net cut and fill for a new site vs existing site, but temporary excavation calcs are not something easily done. I imagine you could get it done with a series of new and existing sites, but it might get difficult to manage. If other tools have dedicated tools to handle "temporary" excavation volumes, you might be happier using those if that is critical to your work.

[pdarosa]

I still can't get an accurate net cut fill as stated above. When I add a topo solid to represent fill, it adds a large quantity of cut in my schedule even though there is no earth being cut. Any ideas what I'm going wrong?

[barthbradley]

I don't understand what cut/fill has to do with this.  You are adding a toposolid in another phase, not modifying a graded region copy of a previous phase toposolid.  There wouldn't be any relationship between the two.  No cut or fill.  

[barthbradley]

Create a Graded Region Copy of subsequent Phase Toposolid and then modify the GR Copy in the forward Phase.  

[Paulo.daRosa]

What would you suggest I do to accurately reflect overall cut and fill for the project. I created a graded region and put it on new construction, the same phase as all the added toposolids to hopefully represent new fill. So they're all on new construction phase. Let me know if I'm leaving anything out or not being clear. Thanks for your help. 

[pdarosa]

How did you go about adding the fill? And can you add fill beyond the original toposolid? For example, fill a planter or a stairwell. If you scroll up you can see the file I'm working in as well. Thanks

[barthbradley]

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@Paulo.daRosa wrote:

 So they're all on new construction phase. 

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With all due respect, that make no sense.  Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, but Phasing, as well as Graded Region Copies, is critical to the process of calculating cut/fill - which is basically comparing two conditions - before and after.  

[barthbradley]

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@pdarosa wrote:

How did you go about adding the fill? And can you add fill beyond the original toposolid? For example, fill a planter or a stairwell. If you scroll up you can see the file I'm working in as well. Thanks

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Again - modify the graded region copy.  Also, if you want to modify to add volume with vertical edges, like we were able to do with Building Pad and Toposurfaces, you're out of luck.  It sucks, I know.  Hopefully Autodesk will address this in future.  

[pdarosa]

As I mentioned, I'm a noob to toposolids so I could be missing something entirely but here is what I meant. The graded region (the copy that was made from existing toposolid) and all the toposolids I'm trying to add as fill are all on the new construction phase. Here are some shots. I think @barthbradley gave me the unfortunate answer. It is not possible. Hope that isn't it though. 

[barthbradley]

You could just format your schedule differently 😉 

[barthbradley]

Yeah, I remember looking at your RVT. As I remember, the quantities were correct.  Again, I believe this can be resolved by formatting the schedule correctly.  Basically, don't show the data that doesn't make sense. Know what I mean?  😉  

[pdarosa]

It would force me to create a "phase 3" as you did and the filter out the cut of that phase. And then manually calculate net cut / fill. Is this along the lines you're thinking? Thanks again. 

[barthbradley]

Absolutely another forward phase WITH a Graded Region Copy of the subsequent Phase Toposolid.  

[pdarosa]

Not really seeing what the purpose of that would be. I'm essentially creating a phase for cut and a phase for fill. Since I'm filtering out and calculating net manually, I don't see a purpose. Again could be wrong but weird that Revit is unable to do this with the new toposolid feature. Many good subtraction features with toposolids but this seems like a primitive function to not get right. Was hoping I was just missing something. Thank you for your help. 

[barthbradley]

Like I said above, your quantities are correct and the data is in your BIM Project.  Comes down to formatting the Schedule to report what you want to report - and nothing else. 

182.01 + 105.26 = 287.27

BTW: before you go there, cut and fill volumes calculated by are approximate. Within +/- 1% to 2% accuracy.  

[peterverginer1]

 To get an idea: this is what i am used to model in 3d and grab the quantities.

has someone already a workflow for revit/civil 3d?

[natalia64QSQ]

Hi all, I need help with the cut and fill calcs. The bluie part is what i need to be filled, the rest is exsting. I tried many options, this one I created a new toposolid but as you can see is not folowing the existing site shape. I know I can get it copied uisng subdivide, but if I do this it wont be calculated as fill. Can someone help me? this new toposolid tells me I am cutting 21.277m3 Which cant be true

[ToanDN]

Create a topo under existing phase.

Go to a view under new phase, use Grade Region tool to create an identical topo.

Modify the graded topo per your design using editing points or any booleen operations (cut, join) then you will see the cut and fill reported in the schedule.

[natalia64QSQ]

@ToanDN  Thanks, that is what I have done, but in order to create the fill that I want, Do I just need to modify the topo by adding points and manually modifying heights? Its crazy job and it modifies the entire toposolid not just the part that I need to. It is easy to cut with the mass but not the fill