APIs are killing jobs but there's no new API developer jobs in the market for building Arch. and Eng.

[Owochar]

Autodesk, you've created a great product but we have an industry problem. All that I've seen is these new API killing jobs in the building industry. I'm ok with it if there are new API Developer jobs for Building Architects and Engineers but there isn't.

As a Building Architect, I've been looking for these jobs. For the past year, I google Autodesk forge API jobs or revit API, C#, .Net Framework jobs, etc,  and I find no new software development job openings available for Building Architects or Engineers who uses these APIs everyday as a part of their work process, creating new interfaces for their companies. Instead, these new interfaces are automating Building Engineer's and Architect's jobs away within these companies. I know cause I've automated many people's jobs away and trust me, my salary did not go up. If I didn't do it, I know someone else will. The architecture and engineering industry is in the process of dying.

With that said, what I see today is that these API Software developer jobs are all designated to Computer Science graduates who have no idea about the construction process and in reality have no idea about/have never used the Revit, Naviswork, or Forge API before entering these jobs. Without knowing construction or the API, how are they more qualified to create new interface solution then a seasoned Building Architect or Engineer?  This is the same for your own company. I go on Autodesk's website and see that you don't hire building architects, MEP or Structural Engineers, etc. for these software development position. Instead, I see Computer Science Degree requirements.

I would like to request Autodesk to start a campaign to create more software develop jobs for building Architects and Engineers. If we are going to automate the entire industry away, at least hire people who actually knows the industry (ie. Real Estate Closing process, AIA contracts, Building Codes, Bid Leveling process, new construction systems, etc. structural calculations, MEP calculations, Bid Leveling, Construction Costs, etc.) in addition to Autodesk APIs, C#, .Net Framework, etc. We are way more then qualify for these jobs, and it's time for companies like yours to recognize that.

[jeremy_tammik]

Interesting topic. I am trying to find out who might be able to help you with this suggestion.

[Owochar]

Thanks Jeremy. This is the sort of bigger picture item that needs to be discussed more. I've been using Revit since 2007 and for the past 3 years I developed codes that replaced more then half of the architecture company that I was working at. I didn't know this was happening until I realized that my codes were everywhere and those positions that was let go were not coming back/not needed. COVID accelerated the shift dramatically. This is(was) a 100+ employee office we are talking about. 

I read an Autodesk article somewhere about how new skill would mean new industries. Maybe it's time for Autodesk to start exploring/creating these industries. I can see Forge being used to create a system to manage construction contracts or even revolutionize the Department of Building approval process by using this system to automatically analyze for building code and zoning compliance for the government. Autodesk already has a tool for energy analysis. These are the type of programming jobs and opportunities that only a seasoned Architect familiar with the industry can identify and create. If Autodesk would only back these projects...maybe Autodesk could create a system to submit software projects for financial backing?

[Yien_Chao]

Hello,

I understand your feelings on this subject, but it is not black and white. I will speak from my experience: I have never looked for this type of job or task, but since most developers did not always understand the reality of architects, I got into APIs and programming to improve them. internal processes of my firm. Results ? people can finally dedicate themselves to architecture instead of worrying about technical BIM issues and non-ergonomic interfaces. Are there people who lost jobs because I made the process more efficient? No.

On the other hand, I have never seen any job offers that required such aptitude, that is to say knowing how to program and also be an architect. Has my salary improved? Yes. here you need to know how to negotiate and showcase the return on investment. It is on this last point that I believe why there is no such job offer yet: The majority of firms do not yet understand the added value of an API developer who is also a construction professional. Instead, they mistakenly think any BIM consultant or expert can do it, but no.

[Owochar]

Hi Yien,
This is a very interesting conversation we are having and one that I don’t see enough of. I have a completely different experience then you do and I think you are underestimating how big APIs are influencing the industry already, and especially, how negatively they will impact job creations in the coming years in small to medium companies.
You are probably currently working for people who barely know what APIs are or your coworkers barely even know Revit let alone C# or python. I work for an architecture firm that's directly under real estate developers at the top of the industry and they are very knowledgeable about the capabilities of Autodesk’s APIs. Every one of the projects I work on is now on BIM360 and even the GCs are using surveying techniques more advance then point cloud. People are constantly testing Revit and Forge API and just like Amazon, these real estate companies see that automating is the future. Have you not seen Autodesk's generative design function? There are people using Machine Learning to now generate data for automatic designs.
I think blaming the individual for not knowing how to negotiate is the failure of the Architecture industry historically. If you haven't figured it out yet, the industry is setup for smart, knowledgeable architects to fail financially so that others can make big money, but that's a different conversation for a different forum.
What I’m advocating is for companies like Autodesk to support Architects and Engineers by being at the forefront of new industry creation and giving us a path to being a part of its creation just by giving us access to software development jobs. The meaning of being an ‘Architect or Engineer’ is changing, let us be the ones to change it.

[mikako_harada]

Hi Owochar,

Jeremy pointed me to this post. Thank you, Yien, for sharing your experience.

Adding a little more if it helps - from my personal experience as a person with architecture background – interdisciplinary is becoming more and more important. To create an ever evolving complex system like Revit, for example, you need both knowledge – industry area and programming. We also need API to expand its capability beyond what one company can imagine and produce. A half of our team has non CS background: e.g., architecture, civil, mechanical engineering, and more. myself being registered architect. When we look our team as a whole, we are quite diverse and able to cover a wide range of issue and topics. (One of my school mate from architecture school is dev manager at Autodesk now.) Having both experience like you do sounds wonderful. Even if you see a job description which asks for computer science background, you may still try to apply. If you are truly passionate about the job and can proof you have equivalent qualification to do the job, I think a hiring manager would be interested in you. As to creating new industry areas, we do see more and more startups who fill the gaps between existing software and ever evolving technologies. Autodesk does offer free access to some of our software for those startups, and occasionally some research fund.  

[Yien_Chao]

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@Owochar wrote:
Hi Yien,
This is a very interesting conversation we are having and one that I don’t see enough of. I have a completely different experience then you do and I think you are underestimating how big APIs are influencing the industry already, and especially, how negatively they will impact job creations in the coming years in small to medium companies. Indeed, for small and medium firm the gap is way too steep.
You are probably currently working for people who barely know what APIs are or your coworkers barely even know Revit let alone C# or python. I work for an architecture firm that's directly under real estate developers at the top of the industry and they are very knowledgeable about the capabilities of Autodesk’s APIs. Every one of the projects I work on is now on BIM360 and even the GCs are using surveying techniques more advance then point cloud. People are constantly testing Revit and Forge API and just like Amazon, these real estate companies see that automating is the future. Have you not seen Autodesk's generative design function? There are people using Machine Learning to now generate data for automatic designs. Here, i dont believe generative design will ever replace human. at best, just a super tool for good already great designers.
I think blaming the individual for not knowing how to negotiate is the failure of the Architecture industry historically. If you haven't figured it out yet, the industry is setup for smart, knowledgeable architects to fail financially so that others can make big money, but that's a different conversation for a different forum. LOL
What I’m advocating is for companies like Autodesk to support Architects and Engineers by being at the forefront of new industry creation and giving us a path to being a part of its creation just by giving us access to software development jobs. The meaning of being an ‘Architect or Engineer’ is changing, let us be the ones to change it. Totally agree, Autodesk could help and not only for startup. For the rest, are you sure is to a software cie to lead the path? i'm just wondering...

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[EATREVITPOOPCAD]

Very interesting conversation! I see your take and agree with it, however I also believe this is a part of the "life cycle" ... the old die, and the new are born. One has to adjust to thrive, but in the end the result will be a better product (hopefully)

Even though AutoDesk here claims the team is 50/50 (AEC / Programmers) I also believe there is not enough AEC influence, as there are too many simple features they can incoorporated to make software much better (In my opinion atleast... I could be assuming everybody wants to use software the way I do... I spend about 75% of my time doing architecture, 20% Managing BIM, and 5% coding 😁 That 5% goes a looooooooooooong way, and makes work much more interesting. )  In an ideal world, the consequence of lack of AEC influence in Revit would create competition software but with Autodesk's size now - that's not happening. If something like that even starts thinking about coming to fruition - it will be bought by Autodesk before it comes out of Beta. On the bright side, this void can be filled by people like you... You can be like the Remora fish, and have a symbiotic relationship with the sharkie.

My last 2 useless cents... Ask for a fat raise if your software automated a sizable chunk of the company. There is value to this, if your firm does not see that - help a firm who will... And best of all, the Autodesk gods gave you the biggest lay up in the world! Your plugins have to be recompiled with each version of Revit 😉

[jeremy_tammik]

Another aspect worth mentioning:

Autodesk HBCU Tech Program creates career pathways

https://adsknews.autodesk.com/stories/hbcu-tech-program

[MarryTookMyCoffe]

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@EATREVITPOOPCAD wrote:

My last 2 useless cents... Ask for a fat raise if your software automated a sizable chunk of the company. There is value to this, if your firm does not see that - help a firm who will... And best of all, the Autodesk gods gave you the biggest lay up in the world! Your plugins have to be recompiled with each version of Revit 😉

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after years in being Programer/MEP I'm surprise how many people don't use this advice.
There is a lot of work like that, you just need to find it, or change the way you advertise your self, add programmer to a cv. It work for me.
And most crucial point is if good architect/MEP etc and good programmer is needed. For making revit yes, for making add ins for revit, not really. It remind me a fun fact from armageddon when Ben Afflec ask
"Why is it easier to train oil drillers to become astronauts than to train astronauts to become oil drillers?"
the answer wasn't pleasant.
Sometimes it is just easier(cheaper) to teach someone basic of one or another, then train specialist in both.

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[RPTHOMAS108]

Spoons and shovels

Probably people have different occupational motivations. I always thought of the things I write as getting the computer to do the mundane things to free up humans for more creative tasks.

I used to spend half a day numbering columns in AutoCad. I had many amazing short-cut techniques e.g.

Number a block of items a0, a1, a2...a9 copy it elsewhere and text replace 'a' with 1. What a waste of time! I'm glad nobody has to do that anymore but perhaps people are happy to (due to other motivations), I don't know.

[Dirk77]

The good kind of woke. I'll be following this with interest.

[CrabbJim1807]

Interesting conversation. We are looking to up our game in "automation" and expect there will be similar concerns within our organization. We're interested in the potential quality improvements and have an idea that reducing the more tedious and/or repetitive tasks of design in Revit will free our engineers to do more engineering and be more creative. I'm curious how the users have viewed the tools that y'all have created? Do they embrace or resist? Do they feel like their jobs are in peril?

[jeremy_tammik]

In a more general vein, change is on its way.

AI will influence everybody's work. Everybody should learn and adapt.

What do politicians and society do to embrace and support this change? Well, nothing of course. It would cost money and resources, and only pay off in the long run. Who ever cares about the long run?

Nobody. Nowhere. Well, with one exception, Finland:

https://www.reaktor.com/blog/democratizing-ai-finland-offers-free-ai-education-to-every-eu-citizen/

[EATREVITPOOPCAD]

VPN with an European IP address…. Here I come!

Edit:

@jeremy_tammik Thank you for that link, I glanced over the course and it looks very cool. I will attempt to do it 😄 Finland for the win

[Kevin.Lawson.PE]

The effect automation will have on building architects and engineers is unclear.   The evidence in this thread that jobs are being killed is anecdotal. In fact, there are more architects and engineers than ever before, and the unemployment rate among architect and engineers is extremely low in the US.

You can’t predict the effect automation will have on employment without knowing the elasticity of the demand curve for architectural and engineering services.  When automation makes the cost to design a building 1/100 of what it is currently, will the demand for those services increase by 100x? 

Your initial response might be “Of course not, we’re not going to build 100x more buildings just because a small portion of the cost is reduced”.  But there are other ways that demand for architects and engineers could increase due to the reduced cost.  Perhaps developers want 100 buildings designed for every plot of land so that they can maximize ROI.  Maybe architects and engineers start bidding materials and equipment so that the design can be issued as an as-built condition and the submittal phase of the project can be skipped.  It’s impossible to predict. 

What we do know is that construction productivity increases have drastically trailed other industries and this failure is helping fuel the housing crisis we are currently in.

In my opinion, all we can do is continue to automate and let the chips fall where they may. 

[Dale.Bartlett]

"I've automated many people's jobs away and trust me, my salary did not go up."

The role of automating office procedures to improve quality and efficiency is often a thankless one. The better the system runs, the quieter the office "noise". This then leads management to wonder why we need this person at all. I have always built a logging component into all apps that records usage data along with an estimate of time-saving. This gives you real-world data to either justify your position, or justify a pay rise. Presenting management with a spreadsheet detailing several hundred hours saved per month is a fairly compelling story.    

[Chuong.Ho]

I also published a post relate to after many year working with : https://chuongmep.com/posts/2024-04-24-burnout-software-in-bim.html