ROTATION & MOVEMENT: Recap to Revit to Navisworks

[depps]

We don't always have the ability to tie into project control when overlaying registered scan data with our models for comparisons and Construction Verification...in those instances, it's an extremely painful process...

We have 2 options:

1) Link in the scan data into Revit once registered within Recap and rotate/modify the location of our Revit models to match the scan data...then export out to Navisworks or other program for overall federated model compilation. This is very cumbersome as it requires us to essentially modify the location of every single file besides the point cloud...simply because we cannot rotate the point cloud in Revit to match the models and have that translate back to ReCap or export to Navisworks, etc.

2) Use an annotated crosshairs system we developed to create common points between the scan data and the model within Revit, draw x/y/z and rotation angles between those two points to ensure alignment...and notate those rotation values to use within Navisworks when importing the Recap file there...again, a very cumbersome workflow.

*Note* - It would be great if we could skip Revit altogether in this workflow and just rotate within Navisworks, but those rotation capabilities leave much to be desired from a control and accuracy standpoint...but that's a topic for another thread.

Keep in mind, neither of these methods is truly accurate as we are basing the scan location on a series of assumptions...typically structural exterior columns with gut checks along column lines around the project, etc...but no, it's not perfect.

I'd love to hear if anyone has a better solution or workflow for accurately aligning a model to a point cloud without control points.

[jasonbayer7965]

what program are you drawing in?

[depps]

We don't typically draw unless we need to...we're more focused on taking models from the design team and subcontractors that have been run through our coordination cycle.

Models range from Revit to AutoCAD (or some add-on version) to Tekla and several other one-off's...

[jasonbayer7965]

Throw it in AutoCad, slice the scan thin, rotate and align in X-Y. then slice vertically and align it in z.

Un-crop cloud, click on the cloud and you can grab the X,Y,Z and rotation from properties, which can be brought into navis to move the cloud to match what you just did in Autocad.  The issue is, you cant do this when you bring it into revit. 

To have everything drop in at zero by itself, you have to use survey points in recap. 

[depps]

I try my hardest to avoid using Autocad for anything...it has always been slow and cumbersome with the models I use...especially point clouds. 

In the absence of alternatives, however, I'll give this idea a shot. I really don't understand why Revit doesn't track translation values.

[jasonbayer7965]

you could also move it in navisworks, but autocad is easier to get it more precise. 

if your autocad is that slow, you may have other issues, try closing all open windows like layers , xrefs and properties. 

We have no issue doing all of our scan like this.  message me if you have issues, maybe I can give you some hints

[depps]

Navisworks rotation has no accuracy at all...best you can do is assign your rotation point to a corner and hope you rotate around accurately...can't do a 2-point rotation like you can in revit/autocad.

[jasonbayer7965]

drop down transform and pin it, you can type in what you want the angle to be. 

Autocad is your best bet.

[Patrick_Aps_9121]

The only good way to do this is to draw everything in the same coordinate system.

That includes the Recap Cloud. You should register the cloud in such a way that the cloud (or the unified export of it) is in the same coordinate system as your Revit models.

Then, you do not need to move or rotate anything anymore in Revit or Navisworks.

So, Move and Rotate the Cloud !

(or, do not accept the Cloud from your Provider if it is not registered in the right coordinate system)

[depps]

Ideally we would be using the same coordinate system and manual rotation/adjustment isn't necessary...

I'm referring to projects where we might not have the ability to tie into project control...if that control is not provided to those collecting the scan data, there really isn't anything for them to register to within their registration software.

[TruePoint-ahunt]

If you're hiring the scanning done, make this a requirement for handing over scan data.  They need the Navismodel, and need to return that with the point cloud aligned.  I understand there's all kinds of fixes, but the rock solid method is modeling in components with Leica Cyclone and forcing the coordinate system all the way through all structured data.  This information is then fed into all the different indexing programs Bentley and Autodesk have.  With that Raw Point Cloud Data, you and re-index at different decimations, etc.

I would imagine there's a way to do this within Recap Pro with their control points. 

We don't like to hear our customers moving clouds around if at all possible.  It's too easy for a design or construction team to make an honest easy mistake while under pressure.

Shot me an email or call and we can chat more. 

[Patrick_Aps_9121]

"If you're hiring the scanning done, make this a requirement for handing over scan data."

I could not agree more.

Don't pay them unless the cloud is in the right coordinate system and in the right file format(s) you required.