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Deactivation of the PERPETUALs you sold us? Why would I give you another cent?

41 RESPUESTAS 41
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Mensaje 1 de 42
Anonymous
5992 Vistas, 41 Respuestas

Deactivation of the PERPETUALs you sold us? Why would I give you another cent?

I am astounded by Autodesk's total disregard for all who trusted them when purchasing perpetual licenses. I can hardly believe they're actually doing this.

 

From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of perpetual
1a : continuing forever : everlasting perpetual motion
b(1) : valid for all time a perpetual right
(2) : holding something (such as an office) for life or for an unlimited time

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Why would I - or anyone else for that matter - choose to invest more money in any Autodesk subscription/product after being told the terms of my previous investment have now changed and that investment is now terminated?

 

I have used 3DS Max since Max 8 (circa 2006) when I paid about $4K for it, plus maintenance, because I TRUSTED them when they stated it was a PERPETUAL license. There were plenty of pirated options for freelancers out there but I stayed honest and paid hard-earned cash from my own pocket because I considered that to be a fair price for a very good, PERPETUAL 3D toolset. I now feel betrayed.

 

Ending maintenance for older, perpetual licenses - that I can understand. But now refusing to even activate those licenses - sold as "PERPETUAL" - that people paid thousands of dollars for, covering it with a statement about the benefits of going to a [FAR more expensive] subscription-based license? They could easily just continue to send out activation codes from a server or even send perpetual license owners an activation code generator. I'm sorry, I don't buy their bit about costs incurred "maintaining two different business models"; an activation server or code generator requires little-to-no paid human labor - a small price to fulfill their end of the bargain. How is this anything short of greed and dishonesty?

 

I was worried this might eventually happen after Autodesk purchased Maya. That creation of a semi-monopoly on then-leading 3D animation tools would eventually drive them to a position like this. Their intentions are now clear for all to see, and I hope this forum reaches many potential customers who can still steer clear of Autodesk. My parting hope is to see a class-action lawsuit force Autodesk back into a position where they honor the terms under which they sold perpetual licenses.

 

My trust in Autodesk is destroyed. I will never use an Autodesk product again - either in my day job or as a night freelancer. I've make our corporate supply chain aware of Autodesk's policy and directed that we no longer purchase any products or subscriptions from them. In blogs and in person, I now let as many other CG artists know about the treatment they can expect from Autodesk and advise them of the more economical (free), trustworthy alternatives.

 

Blender 2.8 has finally become the grown-up version with a comfortable UI that I was waiting for. I've already started making the jump and so far I like the tools and UI more than the last version of Max I was paying to maintain (only to see Autodesk kill off support for it). Blender is FREE with a growing community of dedicated advocates and developers, and it's a lot more appealing than paying $200 a month to receive minimally impressive capability updates from a company I no longer trust.

 

Autodesk - in light of what you've done and the trust you've betrayed, can you give me a single reason why I should not now jump to Blender and bring along as many other users as possible?

41 RESPUESTAS 41
Mensaje 21 de 42
pendean
en respuesta a: Anonymous

>>>...We are a small company...<<<
That may be the hidden meaning behind the quote from the CEO.

I'm not a user of Inventor and I don't know your specific business needs with it, but aren't all the industry standard alternative software packages to it even more expensive? I'm curious more than anything really, if you don't know there you don't have to respond, no worries.

Mensaje 22 de 42
masterplans
en respuesta a: rkmcswain

"I believe the response to all of that was stated two years ago, by the CEO.

"If you don't see value in subscription, you should probably find another software solution" "

 

I totally agree.  Now give back my ****ing software that you Stole from me!

ICN3D
Now running progeCAD!
Mensaje 23 de 42
Ognyan
en respuesta a: masterplans

I don't think his accusations are false as AD broke a number of laws but what will happen is really clear to me now.

1.People will have to send emails to AD when they need to get a response code for offline activation.

2.If they are denied that, they will crack their legally owned version of the software and AD cant tell them a thing about it.

3.If its a company, and they get denied a offline key, they will act more professionally and instead of cracking they will just sue AD.

 

Either way of 1,2 and 3 people will still get to use their software for as long as they want using one of the above methods.

Mensaje 24 de 42
RobDraw
en respuesta a: Ognyan

Can you cite the laws that were broken?


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
Mensaje 25 de 42
Ognyan
en respuesta a: RobDraw

Not all, but the main ones(and more than enough)are:

 

Directive 2009/24/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 23 April 2009 on the legal protection of computer programs.

-points 13,14 and 15

 

And the way the contract was created by AD legal, is at complete contradiction in regards to the rules for a contract terms established by the European Union.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treatment/unfair-contract-terms/index_en.htm

 

Under EU law, standard contract terms used by traders have to be fair. This doesn't change if they're called "terms and conditions" or are part of a detailed contract that you actually have to sign. The contract is not allowed to create an imbalance between your rights and obligations as a consumer and the rights and obligations of sellers and suppliers.

Contract terms must be drafted in plain, understandable language. Any ambiguities will be interpreted in your favour.

 

Also point 6

One-sided cancelation

As stated by the law, this is completely illegal to have a unilateral decision in the way AD tries to do now.

Mensaje 26 de 42
RobDraw
en respuesta a: Ognyan

The problem with your theory is that you could still be using your software. Autodesk did not take away that right.

 

Have you even considered that this is a good thing for customers who do want to stay up to date with their software. Continuing support for outdated software costs money. Guess who absorbs that cost!

 

Do you think we want to pay to keep dinosaurs happy?

 

BTW, pretty color choice and creative use of bolding text.


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
Mensaje 27 de 42
rkmcswain
en respuesta a: RobDraw

The problem with your theory is that you could still be using your software. Autodesk did not take away that right.

Unless of course, a perpetual user decides to or needs to upgrade hardware and then needs to reinstall the software, at which time he will not be able to get it "re"-activated. I'm quite sure Autodesk's historical advertisements did not include the phrase "this is a permanent license, until we decide it isn't".

Continuing support for outdated software costs money. Guess who absorbs that cost

How does it cost Autodesk anything to provide @Ognyan with an activation for software that was paid for in full? Unless you are considering it loss of income because Autodesk is not able to rent @Ognyan a new software contract.

 

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Mensaje 28 de 42
Ognyan
en respuesta a: RobDraw

You wanted to see the law, and I showed it to you.The color choice was to highlight the truth just for you, as you are a well known person to work in ADs defense..

I really don't care what you say about dinosaurs and how AD makes a living as I don't care about their business.I care only about mine, and if a day comes when they deny me a activation key for my 10k software, i will just act in a according way like the others will and AD cant lift a finger because i know my rights.

 

Simple as that.

Mensaje 29 de 42
RobDraw
en respuesta a: Ognyan


@Ognyan wrote:

if a day comes when they deny me a activation key


 

Really?! You aren't affected by this and you are spouting off?


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
Mensaje 30 de 42
Anonymous
en respuesta a: Ognyan

Don't feed the troll... I just ignore his posts :caca:

Mensaje 31 de 42
RobDraw
en respuesta a: Anonymous

Yeah, it's quite annoying when someone argues for the sake of arguing. What's even worse is calling people names when they have opposing viewpoints that actually make sense.


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
Mensaje 32 de 42
igee
en respuesta a: RobDraw

Bottom line: Autodesk back-stabbed the ones who brought them up - perpetual licence buyers. I built my engineering firm's entire operational system around Autodesk products which became exponentially more expensive overnight and put my 13-year old firm back to zero, having to start over with new software.

Did you notice that large firms do not complain that much? They get bulk discounts.

Mensaje 33 de 42
rkmcswain
en respuesta a: igee

@igee wrote:

Did you notice that large firms do not complain that much? They get bulk discounts.

I guess that depends on your definition of "large". 

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Mensaje 34 de 42
RobDraw
en respuesta a: rkmcswain

Size doesn't matter.

 

This guy is blowing smoke. Large firms are constantly upgrading and in the end they pay a lot more per seat per year than the smaller firms that can skip a year or more between upgrades. Also, I'm pretty sure those discounts are minimal and require a lot of seats.


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
Mensaje 35 de 42
igee
en respuesta a: RobDraw

Non-sense. We all had to keep maintenance up to date or we got penalized. You recon the bulk discounts could be minimal? I believe they are enormous. We won't get the facts, will we?

Mensaje 36 de 42
rkmcswain
en respuesta a: igee

@igee wrote:

You recon the bulk discounts could be minimal? I believe they are enormous. We won't get the facts, will we?

Let's discuss. What do you consider "large"? 100 licenses? 500? 10,000? 50,000? 

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Mensaje 37 de 42
igee
en respuesta a: rkmcswain

The more the larger or, the larger the more. The larger the consulting firm, the less they pay per seat. The smaller the firm, the more they pay per seat. This creates an imbalance in the professional services industry whereby Autodesk creates downhill playfield for larger firms and uphill playfield for smaller firms (the smaller the steeper).

Mensaje 38 de 42
rkmcswain
en respuesta a: igee

@igee - I can assure you, that is not true, at least not in the way you are portraying it.

 

Sure, if you have 500 seats, your reseller may give you a % discount at renewal time (compared to if you were just renewing 3 seats), but even then, that % is very, very slim. And isn't this the same for other products? The more the purchase, the better the deal, right?

 

 

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Mensaje 39 de 42
pendean
en respuesta a: rkmcswain

@rkmcswain "...the more you buy the more you save..." can look like a lot of money for someone on the outside only looking at the savings and not the total cost.

@igee is here to vent, let's give him the space to do so.
Mensaje 40 de 42
igee
en respuesta a: rkmcswain

I take your point. The change from perpetual to rental wouldn't change anythin to this end. I have to admit - this is an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory and could very well be wrong. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

 

Are you sure that Autodesk offers no bulk discounts whatsover? Only the resellers?

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