Number of users only want to use 2009, refuse to upgrade, but Windows 7 ending

[Anonymous]

I have a number of users that absolutely despise with every fiber of their being AutoCAD after 2009 and it is actually a fairly growing number. Right now they are all on Windows 7, but I need to upgrade them to Windows 10 1809/1903 by January 14, 2020. What we are thinking is building them new PC's with Windows 10, loading all new apps and then air-gapping the old 7 PC so they can still use 2009.

Does anything exist, like a classic version. Why would these people hate AutoCAD after 2009 so much? I'm an IT guy, I don't use CAD. But they want simple and basic. Most do civil engineering or structural steel and nothing that requires crazy 3d modeling or any real advanced features, but they know AutoCAD 2009 and are experts in AutoCAD 2009.

Is their anyway to keep 2009 on Windows 10 or a classic mode or version of 2019. If people hate the newer versions so much, why doesn't AutoDesk listen and make a nicer 2020 that doesn't have all the problems.

Yes, most of these people are older, so I only have to worry about it for the next 3-5 years and then they would all be retired but the cycle is just going to start again. Young guns in their 20's are already complaining that they want to stay on 2016 and not go past it, saying the newer versions are terrible. But they spent $100k in college learning AutoCAD so they don't want to change.

I don't understand it, I'm not a normie. If I don't like a program's new version I tell the developer why and if they don't respond favorably or at all I change programs and I learn the new one. Takes me a few days. Regular people can't do that. They get really attached to what they know and they don't like change.

However, I can say that in the past few years the quality of AutoDesks programming has suffered a bit. Are they aware? Do they care? I'm assuming they just moved their development to a 2nd or 3rd world country where they can pay people almost nothing compared to what they need to in developed nations. That's what they did with Tech support.

[leothebuilder]

Autocad 2009, Autocad Release 14, or Autocad 2020, regardless all the old commands are still the same. L for Line, Z for Zoom etc. etc.    I am really not sure why these old folks are griping about. I am nearly 70 and Autocad 2020 works just fine for me same as release 10 when I started with using Autocad.  Standing still in this day and age is akin to going backwards.  Just my 2 cents....

[pendean]

AutoCAD2009 is not supported in Win10, which means Autodesk is not interested ever in helping http://autode.sk/1IY4C2X

Autodesk also killed of reauthorizing of 2010 and older software (includes 2009) as of August 31 2019 so you cant install that old software on new PCs anymore. And again, Autodesk is not interested in legacy software https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/learn-explore/caas/simplecontent/content/previous-ver...

You all have some tough decisions ahead.

[DarrenP]

Autodesk has stopped activations for 2010 & older so even if you upgrade to a newer OS you won’t be able to activate these versions anymore

you won’t have choice but to go to a newer version of Autocad or deciding to drop Autocad all together & look at other software

sounds like no one wants to move to later versions because they don’t want to learn the new interface 

[Alfred.NESWADBA]

Hi,

>> but I need to upgrade them to Windows 10 1809/1903 

AutoCAD 2009 is not supported on Windows 10, even if you get it working every single update of Windows 10 will break it (again). So if AutoCAD 2009 needs to be used I would work with virtual systems.

But worse ... the users won't get any more an activation code for AutoCAD releases 2010 and older since end of August 2019 ... as you can read >>>here<<<

>> they spent $100k in college learning AutoCAD

Wow, I have never heard of an AutoCAD class with a price of $100.000,-

Would be great to be the teacher here 😉

>> If I don't like a program's new version I tell the developer why

That's the problem here too, you don't tell us "why" ...

We read quite often "that is different in the new version, why is that different", you can discuss that hours and days long, but at least it is as it is, you can learn to use it or not. In many cases we can present suggestions which makes it easier (like changes in the menu or settings inside AutoCAD) to make the users more happy.

From my personal experience it's a question of knowledge.

Either you have people getting time for self-teaching or you have a management who are willing to spend in update-training's or you have one person in-house who can provide these update-information's to the other guys, then every user knows how to work with the new version of (each) software and is (in most cases) happy to have these new functions.

For those not getting the time and not getting training's it's a hard time, but then this is more a question of "which company wants to have untrained employees" (imho not the best sign for a companies future).

And yes, there exist people, who block learning a new version by simple differences like "this grey of the menu was better before" or something like that. Interestingly these people are not the ones driving a car 30 years because the new one looks different. 😉

My suggestion is to train the people, the are more motivated, they know about new features which they can use then and no problem to struggle with outdated software and file-formats.

Just my 2c, - alfred -

[rkmcswain]

@Alfred.NESWADBA wrote:

AutoCAD 2009 is not supported on Windows 10, even if you get it working every single update of Windows 10 will break it (again).

What?? Huh? Since when does a Windows update break software that isn't "supported" on it?  That is incorrect information. I've seen much older versions running on Win10 which keep operating through Win updates. Perhaps if "will" was changed to "may".

@Anonymous isn't going to have to worry about that most likely anyway because he/she will not be able to get it activated, according to Autodesk.

[TheCADnoob]

IMO this sounds like a company/department cultural thing. How many drafters are still using the board? (joking of course) Technological progress is inevitable and i think its a good idea for companies to offer training on changes in the software.  

My off the cuff guess is that they are resistant to AutoCAD post 2009 due to the ribbon. The ribbon interface was introduced around that time. Many experienced users i encounter don't like the ribbon. In my experience this is usually the reason for resistance. 

The classic interface no longer comes with the program since around 2015. So if you do end up moving forward and upgrading you can get the classic interface back with a couple command or you can use a script.

If there is concern about feedback there are multiple way to give feedback. you can give it directly to them or you can participate in AUGI as well as thier beta groups (granted beta groups would requiring using a newer version).

While i can see that AutoCADs development may be "suffering" for a single use case i would press that your users cant expect to see the new developments if they are using software that is a decade old. Also not all programming efforts results in a new feature. There has been a lot of development on the code base that wont necessarily be seen. 

Im all for not fixing whats not broken and i completely understand that some users only want to use the tools they like. The case can definitely be made for them as ive seen experienced user perform much faster in their preferred environments, but i have also seen a new user create twice the content in half the time using modern tools. I dont envy your situation. 

[Anonymous]

I have offered training end users before; I was told that the workers are paid to work not learn, no matter how small the time investment. Business owners have a very different view.

Even in IT, most of my techs get paid salary, but that person's billable hours still need to exceed their salary, otherwise they get replaced.

What about a 2009-like mode for AutoCad 2020? 

[Alfred.NESWADBA]

Hi,

>> I've seen much older versions running on Win10

And I have seen a lot of tickets and cases "why does my AutoCAD not start any more after I installed a Windows update" ... not sure why you say that this information is not correct.

>> because he/she will not be able to get it activated

Are you sure? Have you tried the license transfer utility?

- alfred -

[TheCADnoob]

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@Anonymous wrote:

...

What about a 2009-like mode for AutoCad 2020? 

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https://www.cad-notes.com/autocad-script-to-create-classic-workspace-automatically/

[rkmcswain]

@Anonymous wrote:

I have offered training end users before; I was told that the workers are paid to work not learn, no matter how small the time investment. Business owners have a very different view.

Even in IT, most of my techs get paid salary, but that person's billable hours still need to exceed their salary, otherwise they get replaced.

I know this does not answer your Q, but I'd run from this place as fast I could. What a terrible culture to have to go to every day.

Yes, you can make 2020 look like 2009 for the most part.

[Anonymous]

I meant college in general costs $100k. Not the AutoCAD class. 4 years of ungrad for architecture and 3 years of post-grad can add up REAL quick. My Wife's Bachelors, Master & PH.d cost well over $200,000.

Back when I went to college, I did a bachelors & masters with living expenses and only spent $100k. But that was 20 years ago. Today it is much worse.

[Alfred.NESWADBA]

Hi,

>> I meant college in general costs $100k. Not the AutoCAD class.

Yep, and using AutoCAD 2009 without getting trained could bring $200k revenue, whereas updating and training the guys may bring in $300k ... because of using better tools and better trained employee and motivated employees.

But here I'm with @rkmcswain , a company that does not invest in more current software and do not invest in training's will only have untrained users and inefficient users resulting in products showing that type of qualtiy ==> not my place ;(

- alfred -

[leothebuilder]

Here's one way of looking at training on the job:

Question: What is worse than paying employees to learn new software and then leave their job?

Answer: Having them not learn anything and stay.............

[Anonymous]

Dude, I don't work at that company. I work at the IT company. The end company that doesn't want to train people is a client.

As far as the IT company, that's the way it works. I'm 2nd in command, I agree. For the boat to stay afloat all users need to be profitable. It's not hard, bare minimum is 45 billalble hours a _month_ but we usually push for techs to do 17-20 hours a week. Most do 25-30 a week with no issue. We keep working on ways to make their administrative time less, but it still takes time to fill out tickets and such. To note, internal work like ordering or receiving parts, is billable and counts. We just bill ourselves. It's really not bad at all, it is tough work, but we have little turnover - most employees are 5+ years.

[Alfred.NESWADBA]

Hi,

>> I work at the IT company. The end company that doesn't

>> want to train people is a client.

As an IT company isn't it your job to help the client to get more efficient with their tools (like workstation, software, training and support)?

I see that as my job whenever something could be made better I tell that to my customers. I give them the information about what could be done better to raise efficiency and quality.

- alfred -

[Bob_Zurunkle]

Okay so, 2009 was the version that first bowed with the Ribbon, and with next to no clues on how to deal with it. I could understand it if they are all on 2008 and hate the idea of going to the Ribbon, but 2009? The current Ribbon doesn't look or act all that much different from the 2009 version, except that a lot of issues in AutoCAD in general have been addressed in the intervening years, not to mention a number of other improvements.

The facts are that you need to upgrade their OS, which won't support such out-of-date software, and that they will need to upgrade regardless of how they feel. Do the Drafters run the company?

If they really need a lot of hand holding, tell them to come here for answers. It's not the end of the world.

[cadffm]

I just want to say what @Bob_Zurunkle wrote,

specialy 2009(?) - 

Between 2009 and all other newer version there are no tec differences (point of view from your EXPERTs),

so it makes no sense.

A classic User Interface like in Version 2008 and older needs max. 30seconds in 2009 (or newer, like 2019 - just the Screenmenu, a special GUI from the 80's need 1 minute more)

Softwareproduct from 2009,

Perhaps difficult to install 

No activation code from Autodesk

I really want to know how the story ends in this case where the bosses are so ********

[Anonymous]

There's a few reasons people don't want to upgrade from 2009.

1) 2009 you got to own it, since this was before Autocad started requiring a lease on the software, so there is the money issue.

2) Autodesk is constantly reshuffling around the menus, commands and even rename stuff in order to justify releasing a new version of autocad every year.

3) If all you do is 2d design then you don't need all the extra junk that just bloats Autocad and makes it very unstable.  I kept upgrading autocad to version 2014 but got tired of it crashing and went back to 2009 civil 3d.  

In the end it doesn't matter as Autodesk just paid Microsoft to add an update in windows 10 that nukes your installation of Autocad 2009, it resets your license and since Autodesk won't activate it anymore your screwed.   And yes I have a licensed copy of 2009, actually I have licensed copies of Autocad up to 2014.   I've used 2009 civil 3d since Windows 10 came out with no issues.   So the whole story that  Autocad 2009 doesn't work with Windows 10 is a lie.  Autodesk just wants to force you to lease their software at $2200 a year.   If Autodesk was honest they would of released a patch that disabled the need to activate 2010 and older Autocad versions, especially since it "doesn't work" on Windows 10 and they're not supporting it anymore.   

[RobDraw]

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@Anonymous wrote:

If Autodesk was honest they would of released a patch that disabled the need to activate 2010 and older Autocad versions, especially since it "doesn't work" on Windows 10 and they're not supporting it anymore.   

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Thus allowing a large number of people with illegitimate copies to use the software for free.

Please retract your false conspiracy theories.