Can I obtain offline activation in the future?

[Ognyan]

After losing communication with Matt,Felice advised me to post here.I already know about the ''life cycle''autodesk decided to invent.And i got a message from the corporate council trough Matt which was:

''Our policy has been consistent with the terms of our license agreements, although we have only loosely upheld the product activation policy in the past. What’s new is our intent to align our practices with our stated policies and Terms and consistently uphold them. Autodesk is not restricting users from perpetual rights of the use of our software, and at the same time, we are no longer agreeing to continue to offer product activation for legacy versions when the environment in which the software had been used has changed by events outside of our control.''

-----------------------------

In the message It says ''Autodesk is not restricting users from perpetual rights of the use of our software''

1) Yet, when the date of lets say march 2022 comes and for some reason I need to reinstall my Maya 2019 perpetual license due to workstation fail or new equipment I will not be able to.I will be RESTRICTED by Autodesk.This completely CONTRADICTS what you are saying to me and there is no solid background behind.What one thinks and wants (in this case Autodesk) doesn't mean its still legal to do and achieve by the current law.

In the message i received It says ''we are no longer agreeing to continue to offer product activation for legacy versions when the environment in which the software had been used has changed by events outside of our control'' 

2) I am the owner of the software and NOT my computer and I am in my right to renew my equipment and to reinstall the software that i use and own all the times i want..

This completely contradicts ''Autodesk is not restricting users from perpetual rights of the use of our software''

3) The life of a hardware can not be linked to a software by law.Completely illegal and there is no connection at all between the two.Autodesk has no rights over my hardware to dictate how long its software will live!

4) Perpetual licenses aren't services. Additional offerings might be, but the license at the core of it, is a product and Autodesk can be expected to ensure its accessibility (which includes activation) at a reasonable cost to Autodesk. This will include some fluctuations and "unexpected" events. Especially increased costs resulting from Autodesk failing to prepare for reasonably expectable events or discontinuing systems set in place earlier at any point in time, can't be a reason to discontinue activation support without offering an alternative.

And I am not getting any alternative here.All I require is a offline activation tool from Autodesk or a written permission that in the future, if I need to activate my software due to new system upgrade and Autodesk still doesn't provide new activation codes, than I need to be granted with a written document that permits me to activate the software the way a find best for me in order to take advantage of it and use it as intended.

5) Previous version rights are not an additional service in the first place, but an inherent right.No maintenance or subscription should be required for that.

As so, in my legal rights i continue to demand a offline activation tool if Autodesk decides to not honor our legal contract or a written permission to activate the software the way a find best for me in order to take advantage of it and use it as intended.

6) I have said it before and will say it again.As a citizen of the European Union

Here is the legal law document:

Directive 2009/24/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 23 April 2009 on the legal protection of computer programs

Points 13,14 and 15

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32009L0024

''The exclusive rights of the author to prevent the unauthorised reproduction of his work should be subject to a limited exception in the case of a computer program to allow the reproduction technically necessary for the use of that program by the lawful acquirer. This means that the acts of loading and running necessary for the use of a copy of a program which has been lawfully acquired, and the act of correction of its errors, may not be prohibited by contract. In the absence of specific contractual provisions, including when a copy of the program has been sold, any other act necessary for the use of the copy of a program may be performed in accordance with its intended purpose by a lawful acquirer of that copy.''

Now I just typed a full wall of legal rights here that were provided to my by legal authorities.What it will take for Autodesk to acknowledge that there is something wrong with its current actions? Especially as i wasn't provided with a alternative to keep using my perpetual in the future?

[pendean]

Not an affiliate, I'm just an end user just like you who understands how the world works,w hat I sign up for, and always keep an eye on my wallet.

See your other ongoing parallel discussion on this topic, I think this fellow explained it well that once you started paying annually you gave up a lot of perpetual rights https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/moving-to-subscription/keep-perpetual-maintenance-licensing/m-p/89368...

Also this should help everyone as to whether they should stick with Autodesk or explore other options https://www.cadalyst.com/management/calculate-roi-today’s-cad-software-71188

Go contact some legal counsel and stick with one thread in these forums for your continued discussions on the matter.

Good luck.

[Ognyan]

Ok looks like I will have to say a few things.

Cool, Autodesk  has it that if you installed newer versions which include clauses then you're subject to the new clauses.We are talking maintenance here.Still the perpetual at its core is still pure and a product that is going hand by hand with the software, which is what you buy.

If everyone on this planet said that when you buy something from them, that you are subject to newer future clauses in the future forever, than we loud be obligated to be servants for life and no need for law.I have never seen anywhere how Autodesk interprets the word Perpetual, but from just looking at the pages of lightwave, modo, cinema 4d they clearly know what perpetual means.If there was  a clear sign that tells me that when I bought my perpetual , that meant time limited I loud have backed off.Autodesk placed something so important in tiny letters and complex language when it was to been advertised to the public in BIG words.So we have people now that autodesk say that they are interpreting this wrongly.The masses are interpreting this the wrong way because it wasn't advertised and it falls in to the section of false advertising as others stated.

The second thing is that i made this thread because I was advised to do so by a friend Autodesk employee and is stated in the beginning. Not because I enjoy this,I have a life.And yes, I have stated that i am in contact with a lawyer who is investigating this and educating me along the way.

Now the other thing.

Ive asked you and rkmcswain quite a few times to share in front of the others what perpetual autodesk software do you own and you never did.

1: If you don't have a perpetual software , why are you here and protecting autodesk so much and giving them a hand since you don't work for them? Dont you understand that you are in direct confrontation with users that feel cheated? What do you gain with this?..

2:If you do own a autodesk perpetual license and don't care about the money you payed, than others do care, and I don't think again that is a good reason to come and defend a company that you don't work for..

If this Autodesk move doesn't affect you bought at all, I see no reason why you should always try to undermine all of the logic that was delivered by others here.No to mention that a legal European document was shown and ignored.

[Ognyan]

But that is just my personal opinion and no one is forced to take it.My intention is to be respectful with others first.

[rkmcswain]

@Ognyan wrote:

....why are you here and protecting autodesk so much and giving them a hand since you don't work for them?

What is the world is giving you the impression that I am "protecting autodesk"? I'm simply reporting facts, and everything else is based on history

[Ognyan]

Well, everyone here already knows the facts because they were posted on the autodesk web page a month ago so technically you are not contributing with anything new.I don't care if Autodesk is making enough money as its not my problem.The facts are one sided only for now.The new here, is the other side of the facts provided by users and legal info and those are the ones that need looking in to and discussing now.

And yes, history tends to repeat it self.Unless people start to do something, which is what is happening right now. We are discussing peacefully and exchanging info on how this situation doesn't look right and a possible fix that pleases everyone(a usb dongle does sound good and i will pay for such a thing by the way).With the hope someone from Autodesk will show and have the interest in joining the conversation.Which will not happen and that is the reason I still cant hit that ''accept solution button'' I am not ready for it.

So instead of dong a flame topic, i recommend to post things that actually mean/provide something new.We already know one side of the story, and now is time for the other one.

[Ognyan]

Autodesk also told that they will provide codes for safe keeping but are not sure if they will work.I already asked Felice something and she promised to notify Matt from autodesk if that sounds like a possible happy solution for everyone.I hope Matt shows up and takes a looks at this.

So, if Autodesk accepts and gives each user something like 18-20(no less than that) activation codes per software for future safe keeping when we change hardware or something bad happens and Autodesk makes sure that those keys will work 100% in the future, than that, I think might be a medium- long time solution too.

[rkmcswain]

How could they possibly give out codes in advance? Isn't the code generated by the application, and then the resulting activation code based on unique identifiers of the hardware?

[Ognyan]

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/previous-version-support/can-i-save-my-activation-code/td-p/8871438

The application generates a response code by using your installation code.

With each version of the software you install, you get a activation code that sends a request to autodesk to activate the software.If you install the software on a different machine with the activation same code, it will not work.You will have to tell autodesk to give you a new one in order to activate which eliminates the use of the old code if im not mistaking.

[matts.adsk]

Hello @rkmcswain  and @Ognyan .  This post is correct.  The activation code is based on the relationship of the hardware and software.  We can generate a code which will work indefinitely with the hardware/software combination, provided nothing about the configuration changes.

But, to the request for 10-15 codes, that is not technically possible, for the reason above.  If you have a code for a machine and nothing about that machine changes, you should be able to re-use the code.  Likewise, you can load the software on a "backup" machine and keep it as fail-safe.  But I am sorry @Ognyan there is no way to produce multiple codes which will work on unknown machines in the future.

[rkmcswain]

@matts.adsk wrote:

The activation code is based on the relationship of the hardware and software.  We can generate a code which will work indefinitely with the hardware/software combination, provided nothing about the configuration changes.

Thank you for the confirmation @matts.adsk  !

[Anonymous]

You answer what you want, I have not purchased a PERPETUAL license tied to any harware, I have purchased a PERPETUAL license to be used as much as I want in the hardware I want, how are you going to enable me to do this WHEN I change my hardware? (something I can do because is my right by law).

When have you communicated that the PERPETUAL licenses is tied to some hardware?

Why do you think Autodesk has permission to force this?

Are you lying when you say we can continue using our perpetual license as much as we want?

(remember you cannot tie the license to the hardware, I'm in my right to upgrade my hardware as I want and my software must work and be activated)

Now answer all this please, instead of doing gas light to the questions that you prefer to ignore.

[Ognyan]

Thank you Matt for passing by .Looks like me hitting that ''accept solution button '' is going to take some time.I thought it was a good idea, but if Autodesk doesnt like it,ok.I and I am sure everyone else here, is willing to work with you guys and together find a solution the pacifist and professional way. But I will have to give my vote to what juangea said and we will have to continue to brainstorm a solution that will pleases everyone's expectations.So lets continue to work together more.I really hope that Autodesk is brainstorming possible solutions too.

Here is another idea Matt.Autodesk has a army of professional coders for which i think many things are possible.How about for them to generate for each user a unique eternal universal activation key(one that enables use of all hardware/windows changes,probably with a patch to the software version) that will be tied to the last perpetual software version we have installed(maintenance or not).  Autodesk will know when we are changing hardware but it will show them also that the key is still used on the amount of purchased seats?

[Ognyan]

So yeah, a universal activation code that grants us eternal installation, all access and hardware/windows change freedom for the last installed perpetual software version that we own.

Off topic, im quite displeased that we cant edit messages more than once and have no idea why is autodesk page so slow updating when i have 100mb connection..

[rkmcswain]

@Ognyan wrote:

So yeah, a universal activation code that grants us eternal installation, all access and hardware/windows change freedom for the last installed perpetual software version that we own.

Perhaps you are missing the point here. Autodesk wants everyone to pay annually for use of their products. Allowing you and others to keep using existing products for no cost does not align with that goal. Autodesk pays their legal council a lot of money to figure out how to come out on top of these ventures.

Off topic, im quite displeased that we cant edit messages more than once and have no idea why is autodesk page so slow updating when i have 100mb connection..

You can generally edit your message for X number of minutes. You may see some posts that claim you can't edit after a new post is added, but I've done that. I really think it's purely based on a timer.

As far as the speed, yeah, they are pretty slow. Ever since the move to Lithium and this HTML format back in ~2005, it's been less than desirable.

[Ognyan]

Thank you for confirming me that it is not only me with the speed problem.

On the other hand, what Autodesk wants doesn't mean is what Autodesk will get.I already payed the cost once in a big amount(and still paying the maintenance), but that doesn't mean I am obligated to feed them for the rest of my life.

What we have right now is nothing more than a scare tactic from them and they know it.People know it too, and that is very good.

[Anonymous]

Actually, I (we? Owners of Perpetual licences?) do not care what Autodesk business plan is, or will be in the future. We care about our legally aquired PERPETUAL licences, and rights to use it. Autodesk wants to pay anually for their softwares, and that is good. But, taking from us possibility to use and activate products that we bought is wrong, and as we can see in previous posts, illegal. If I will have a need to use annual subscription plan, I will do it. But forcing us to do this is inappropiate. 

[Anonymous]

Hello matts.

Can you explain, how on earth this is compliant with EU law? Can you show us legal law documents?
Ognyan show us legal law document, can you do the same?

[Anonymous]

I'm fairly certain that if enough people got together, a class action suit and a good lawyer would result in a win.  Is it worth going that far?  Perhaps not, but I just don't see a judge interpreting the word "perpetual" any differently than we do.

For my part, I bought a machine specifically for the purpose of running $7k worth of software.  It was an unplanned for expense, but one I hope solves my problem until I can make the switch to Blender.  That will take a long time as I am heavily invested in 3ds Max, but what else can I do...

Oh, and by the way, how exactly does one "back up hardware," as Matt suggested above?

[Ognyan]

''Likewise, you can load the software on a "backup" machine and keep it as fail-safe.''

Just as user Ithornblad said, I am also interested on how it is even possible to back up the already installed registered software on a different machine..??

From what i am aware once the software is installed, i am not able to install it twice and register it on a second workstation.

By your phrase the only thing that comes to my mind is buy a backup pc>install and register the software there as you tell us>turn off that pc and put inside in a box and never use again>use cracked version on main PC in order to continue to work???

If im not mistaking, this is the only way to backup the legal software, on a pc that will never die and continue to work at the same time??

I cant even start to understand this situation at all or how to interpret your recommendation.

You see, thanks to phrases like that Autodesk gets all of the misinterpretation by users in the world, and after that is our fault.

[SilverVane]

Xmass, you hit the nail on the head. Its really as simple as that. 

OK, so Autodesk has so far only notified us of a policy change that they plan to put into effect in the very near future. But it is clear that one hugely significant effect of this policy, will be to restrict enjoyment of a perpetual license to the specific hardware environment that it is installed on.

Both the licensed software and the included DRM software were provided with the explicit inter-dependency between hardware and software understood by both parties. Software can only be enjoyed if it is installed on hardware. As such, this essential relationship between hardware and software is a material part of the perpetual nature of the license agreement between software vendor and license holder. They might argue that hardware is out of their control. Of course it is, and you provided me with a perpetual license with the understanding that hardware was my responsibility. This relationship hasn't changed.  

So the question is - is provision for maintaining this relationship an in-soluble part of our agreement with Autodesk? It seems that Autodesk's lawyers are confident that no such relationship between software and hardware exists. So they are saying our license is in no way degraded once it provides perpetual rights to nothing more than a bunch of utterly worthless digital rights managed 1's and 0's.  But their lawyers being confident they are correct and actually being judged correct in an EU court are very different states - as has been demonstrated before. 

One final thing, let's not worry too much about Autodesk's motives - they are pretty irrelevant to us and probably only serve to stir up ill feelings and emotions that might cloud the discussion. Otherwise we will spend a lot of time and energy losing our way in a red mist. Also the whole perpetual/SaaS argument is a completely separate and old issue that belongs in the past. We have all moved on.

We need to be clear and concise about what our argument is. Lets keep calm, and focus on practical remedies - if at all possible engage with Autodesk to find a solution, but failing that, we should not shirk from the alternatives.

edit - and for the record, I've held a perpetual license of 3dsMax for several years and have never been on maintenance, so to my knowledge, my original license agreement holds.