PowerMill Simulation Kinematics Solver

[Anonymous]

Was having an issue earlier this week with Autodesk PostProcessor 2017 taking over from our time tested 2014 PostProcessor. I had to uninstall it to get it to stop being the active version. Lack of foresight.

When I simulate I get the error "Machine tool kinematics solver is not installed or cannot be configured. The simulation has been stopped."

Also, when I try to post a program that has a Machine Tool mtd file associated with it PM crashes, I assume for the same reason - the MTD solver is looking for PP2017.

My simulation has stopped working because apparently PP2017 had registered itself into the PM2017 software as the solver for our MTD files. Anybody know if there is a way to get PM2017 to solve simulation with PP2014? I'd prefer not to reinstall PP2017 for this, as it is best for the MTD solver to be the same as the PP solver. I know that there shouldn't be a difference in how angles are solved between 2014 and 2017, but....who here wants to test that out in an infinite number of circumstances?

Anyway, could use some help before I end up having an administrator come reinstall PP2017 on all our CAM stations.

[NanchenO]

I also had a big issue with PMPost 2017 which output wrong machine coordinates for programs working perfectly under PM 2016 / PMPost 2014R2. I opened a ticket ( No 12190800).

What is your issue with PMPost 2017 ?

Olivier

[Anonymous]

I have just had issues in the past with pmoptz files getting corrupted and programs having unexpected behaviors when updating postprocessor. As a rule I prefer not to update because it sometimes make me have to fix issues in the opt file that hadn't been an issue before. We only update if there is added functionality that we want to use. That hasn't happened since orientation vectors came out.

[NanchenO]

I now have the same philosophy as you for PMPost. I updated to PMPost 2015 and almost crashed a machine, so I went back to PMPost 2014R2, which I find good. PM 2016 + PMPost 2014R2 work fine together.

As I made tests with PM 2017 + PMPost 2017, a 5 axis program using machine coordinates was wrong. I immediately thought that PMPost 2017 was the cause and activated PMPost 2104 R2 -> same problem -> The bug actually is in PM 2017 + SP1 + SP2... But it does not mean that PMPost 2017 is clean.

Olivier

[jonathan.artiss]

Hi i

ceonfloor,

Was there any other reason you don't want to use PP 2017 besides that PP2014 is your preferred PP?

I know that every time you open PowerMill 2017 it will COM register PostProcesser 2017 as well. This is likely a fail safe to ensure everything works as expected. I would assume that you are receiving these errors since the connections and dependency between the two of them is now lost as a result of uninstalling PP.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

We just don't like to update our PP if we don't absolutely have to in order to keep using what has been proven out. We've had issues with it in the past and prefer not to have them every time there is an update.

We got the simulation fixed by uninstalling and reinstalling PMPOST2014 and then running the "make PMPOST current" utility as admin. Hopefully that keeps things working now.

Will the autodesk postprocessor continue to install itself when powermill is updated? I wasn't here when our IT dept installed the software, so I didn't see if there was an opt out opportunity on the autodesk postprocessor software.

[NanchenO]

Hi @jonathan.artiss,

The update of PMPost must be asked and not forced. If the setup automatically updates it without prompting, we do not even know that it has been updated !

I already had issues with PMPost's updates and was very lucky to avoid a severe machine crash ( > USD 30'000.- ! ) !!!

If PMPost is automatically updated, even worse without alert, that means that I will have to retest all my postprocessors (5 for the moment, turn-mill will come when my bugs will be cleaned) any time that I install a service pack !

Since we can't check the PP's behaviour on the screen, it has to be 100 % tested or for sure it can cost you a new spindle and some other spare parts ! I can not afford spending 2-3 days testing or a new spindle at every service pack !!!

Please correct this asap or you are going to get very angry customers who crash their machines !!!

Olivier

[jonathan.artiss]

Hi NanchenO,

The update is forced as they a dependent of one another. I do agree that you should be notified when you open 2017 for the first time. I can completely understand your concern especially if you have had a close call before. What I would suggest is contacting your local support team about your post processer to see if this new version of PP2017 will effect the code output at all, in theory this shouldn't but it is possible. Speak with the post team and hopefully they can put you at ease.

I am told that you should be able to COM register older version's of PP but you will need to do this each time you open or restart PM 2017. This could be a work around until you can do some testing or speak to the post team.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Anonymous]

As far as the automatic COM register goes, as long as the newer PP is no longer installed the COM register won't work and it isn't an issue. So far things are going well here with the older PP, but I'll have to see how SP updates affect things.

[NanchenO]

Hi Jonathan,

I can understand that PowerMill and PMPost are connectd and should be at the same version: it's logical.

I would like to give you some facts:

With PM 2015, we used PMPost 2014 and I had to roll back after some updates because the posted results were not correct. Now, we use PM 2016 with PMPost 2014R2 because they give good and consistent results.

I tryed to install PMPost 2015, but it was almost unusable and gave wrong results when using machine coordinates and we almost crashed our 1.5 Mio $ machine ! I opened a case by Delcam, but I am still waiting for a correction !!! That is the reason why we are still using PMPost 2014R2 : It is the LAST GOOD VERSION

Now, PM 2017 combined with PMPost 2017 or with PMPost 2014R2 is unable to give me that correct machine coordinates (Case # 12190800, created Sept. 22nd). I wonder if the case opened for PMPost 2015 has been treated or not

That means, that I cannot deploy PM 2017 for the moment !!!

If in the future, PMPost will be as unstable as it was in the past, I wonder if I will be able to install a SP from time to time !!! I don't feel confident with PMPost's updates (unless PMPost's staff works much better as they did in the past) and you tell me that I will be obliged to fully test a +/- beta version of PMPost at every SP ??? I don't have enough time to do it !!!

If it appears that I won't be able to deploy a fully operational combination of PowerMill + PMPost for a long time, then I should better stop the maintenance, continue to work for 1-2 years with PM 2016 + PMPost 2014R2 and then buy another software !!!

It really seems that Autodesk has still not realized that the best CAM software is useless if it is not able to produce RELIABLE NC CODE ! It was perhaps also a weakness by Delcam, but at least they gave the opportunity to choose with which PP you want to work. If Autodesk removes this opportunity, they will kill PowerMill and may be some other former Delcam's products !

Olivier

[NanchenO]

@Anonymous, @jonathan.artiss

I had a bug with PM 2017 and PMPost 2017, but I was not aware that starting PM 2017 would automatically COM register PMPost 2017. I believed that COM registering PMPost 2014R2 before starting PM 2017 was enough to use it.

That drived me to think that PM 2017 was totally unable to give me the correct result, even with PMPost 2014R2.

Now I completely deinstalled PMPost 2017 and I get the correct result -> My problem is located in PMPost 2017, not in PM 2017 !

The trouble is that I can post my program completely, but PM 2017 systematically crashes after that.

@jonathan.artiss : I think, that this is a good reason to give the possibility to choose which version of PMPost we want to work with ?!

Thank you for your inputs, guys, it helps me a lot to understand what is going wrong !

Olivier

[Anonymous]

We had a crashing issue with one of our systems after uninstalling PP2017 and we found that the issue had to do with the machine tool model being associated with the NC Program. It seems that the postprocessor version used for simulation in PM2017 is hard coded into the machine somewhere upon importing the machine tool. If you need to have an active machine tool in your NCProgram for your post to work, you can try deleting or renaming and reimporting the machine tool into PM2017 and referencing the newly created instance in your program settings. Otherwise, if you don't need the program to reference the machine tool model, try just unassociating the model with the ncprogram in the settings and see if that fixes your crashing issue.

[NanchenO]

@Anonymous,

Sorry, to see that you had a crash ! It definitly shows that there were big changes with PM 2017 and that we need a better documentation on how all this works and how we can force it to use a correct version of PMPost (i.e. +/- bug free and completely tested).

@jonathan.artiss,

As you can see, we are having issues wtih the new relationships between PowerMill and PMPost. Could you please provide us a complete information on which function uses which PMPost version and how we can take influence on them ? If we cannot, then we will simply not be able to work with PM 2017.

I think that these issues show that forcing the use of the last PMPost's version is not compatible with our production's needs. If we continue having that kind of issues, many customers will think about moving to another CAM software. Don't forget that a CAM software not able to post correct NC programs is totally useless and nobody will continue to pay for it !

Olivier

[jonathan.artiss]

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@NanchenO wrote:

@jonathan.artiss,

As you can see, we are having issues wtih the new relationships between PowerMill and PMPost. Could you please provide us a complete information on which function uses which PMPost version and how we can take influence on them ? If we cannot, then we will simply not be able to work with PM 2017.

I think that these issues show that forcing the use of the last PMPost's version is not compatible with our production's needs. If we continue having that kind of issues, many customers will think about moving to another CAM software. Don't forget that a CAM software not able to post correct NC programs is totally useless and nobody will continue to pay for it !

Olivier

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@NanchenO

I'm not aware of such a document but I will definitely request some more information about this.

Cheers,

[NanchenO]

@jonathan.artiss

I've see, that you opended a ticket for me. Thank you very much, Jonathan !

Olivier

[Mikhail_Voronin]

@NanchenO

Hi,

Have you tried to analyze the NC-code changes, when using PMPOST 2017? Where there is a change?
I have 5axis post and it's important for me.

[NanchenO]

@Mikhail_Voronin,

The only issue, that I have is when I output the coordinates in the Machine Workplane. The other coordinates are OK with my both 5 axis PP.

The trouble is that my Acramatic 2100 has not the option to work in 3+2 axis with local coordinates (G52.1, which is equivalent to a CYCLE800 for a Sinumerik) and I must use the machine's coordinates to get the correct result.

I suggest that you take some typical programs posted with a former version of PowerMill, make a copy, re-post them with PM 2017 and compare them in the editor (Notepad++ with "compare" plugin is perfect for that job).

This is the way I used to find the PMPost 2017 bug without destroying my machine.

Olivier

[Mikhail_Voronin]

thank you very much, it is a good idea