Keep perpetual licenses

[brotherkennyhmusk]

Heres a great idea. Why don't we have software that you continue to own and be able to use even after you have paid for it?

Firstly I will say that I am a fan of Autodesk software and I do think they make some great products. I think desktop subscription is a great idea to allow it as an option and will no doubt help a good number of companies access CAD software where otherwise they would not.

That said, I am not a fan of having all new purchases forced onto desktop subscription. Our company is of the size where most of our licenses would be perpetual maintenance subscription purchases if we were given the choice.

Software is an asset to a business. Changing the licensing model is removing that asset. Once I stop paying I effectively have nothing.

The new licensing model is clearly designed by the Autodesk sales team as an effort to drive a consistent and dependant revenue stream. It gives them the power to raise the prices even higher and users will have to pay it or lose access to their software. I do not like being held to ranson and the new licensing model stinks of that.

One of the first things I did was look up FREE open source CAD software and for at least a small number of our users this is what I will be recommending at our next review meeting

[3dben]

Adobe couldn't answer this; maybe you can. If I work in a secure lab, on a computer that can not be connected to the internet, how can I use a software that requires ongoing verification that a payment has been made?

[felice.s]

HI @3dben,

Desktop Subscription licensing technology does require a connection with Autodesk via the internet: once at first login to the product, and then again periodically (once every 30 days) over the term of the subscription. For companies that completely disable internet traffic (blocking Ports 443 (HTTPS) and 80 (HTTP)), Desktop Subscription is not currently an option but the upcoming “network subscription” offering is something to consider. Network subscription does not require a connection to the internet, but only to a local network server. You can read more about network subscription here. Network subscription also lets you share licenses among multiple users (in case that's of interest to you.)

If your company routes internet traffic through a proxy server (standard proxy or an authenticated, password protected proxy), Desktop Susbscription is still an option for you with a workaround that I understand is known as "whitelisting".  Please check out these knowledge base articles that declare a set of Autodesk domains that can work within the proxy security settings. Proxy server settings changes required to unblock Autodesk A360 services  and

Desktop Subscription Licensing Error: "Establish an Internet connection to continue"

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Felice

[OBERDACKER]

@Nils, I have a feeling that this is exactly Autodesk's plan. It's what they did when pushing everyone to get on subscription years ago. They slowly changed the price so that buying new versions every few years became more expensive than paying the subscription fee every year. It seems like this time they are simply taking a more aggressive approach. Remember that you can pay the subscription fee for multiple years-up to three I believe-to lock your subscription cost for a few years. I've heard a few Autodesk representatives mention that lately, so I fully expect them to start increasing the cost of maintenance subscription. I'm in the process of looking at the feasibility of going that route with our maintenance subscriptions. It sucks to have to spend so much time going through all the different scenarios to figure out how best to spend my company's money without having the information I need to be sure I'm making the best decision. Such is life-and the market economy. I'd recommend checking out Robert Green's articles about this subject. He give solid advice and shares spreadsheets to help you go through your options. At least then you have a good idea of how the options you currently have compare and can make a decision from there. It would be worse if I/we didn't have these problems.

[Andrew1307]

I shall add my .02

Subscription based models like this based on what Adobe has done only benefits new small companies and Autodesk. Large corporations dont care either way (some may prefer the subscription model).

However medius sized businesses are hooped. There are many situations where a single license is needed for some specific purpose that is not used all the time thus does not warrant on going cost. These same situations also fit a per device license model, not a per user model. I have a peice of customized software that is not worth investing any further money into but runs on Autocad 2009 (full not LT) and not later versions. Why should I have to keep paying  a monthly fee to keep this working when I wont be updating it? And why should I have to pay for each user that is going to be using this even though it will only be used intermittently and resides on a single device?

Also as a medium sized business without a dedicated IT staff, I dont want to manage user access to the licenses. I want to install the software and license it to that device. Anyone who can use that computer can use the software. That or network licenses.

Also going forward any new licenses I add are going to be a different contract now from my existing maintenance subscriptions. This is going to get confusing really quick and will add additional overhead.

Why can't Autodesk offer both models? Perpetual and Subscription. The answer is simple, they can but only care about making more money.

[NilsWille]

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@OBERDACKER wrote:
 It sucks to have to spend so much time going through all the different scenarios to figure out how best to spend my company's money without having the information I need to be sure I'm making the best decision. ...

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Exactly, but it feels like we're not going to get any more precise information on the matter, so we just have to take a leap of faith on this one.

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@OBERDACKER wrote:
I'd recommend checking out Robert Green's articles about this subject. He give solid advice and shares spreadsheets to help you go through your options. At least then you have a good idea of how the options you currently have compare and can make a decision from there. It would be worse if I/we didn't have these problems.

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Thanks, I will check Robert Green out, but believe me, I already have my own spreadsheet done in order get an overview on the costs 3 to 5 years out.

[Crustaceans]

"This continuous availability of services requires us to recognize revenue as services are delivered."

Then leave that as a subscription-based option for those customers who need such features and let us purchase perpetual licenses without those features. I have never needed or used the "connected" features of the software.

[brotherkennyhmusk]

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@brotherkennyhmusk wrote:

HI,

Another point that has occured to me that was not on my original list.

What is going to happen to the price of mantenance subscription? We are told that customers with existing maintenance subscription will be able to keep their maintenance subscription as long as they keep it active. I suspect we can expect a big rise in the price of maintenance subscription in the coming years.

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thinking back to this post I can clearly predict the future.

I haven't posted for a while and thought it about time I responded and continued to voice my disgust.

Since my previous post Autodesk have announced that maintenance subscription costs will be going up 10% and that design suites are now also going subscription only. Time to jump ship and find alternative software.

Many of the decisions about this kind of thing are made many months, somethimes even years ahead and it can take a long time for organisations to realise the error of their ways. Hopefully at least one person at Autodesk will have had the balls to tell their bosses just how moronic they are being.

This weeks lottery numbers wilkl be.....

[brotherkennyhmusk]

I don't think 3dben was after advice on how to overcome his problems.

I suspect he was more trying to make the point that changing to subscription only offerings is not as simple for your customers as flipping a switch.

There is work to be done, investment in some cases and man hours to alter setup of equipment/systems.

Besides while it is easy enough to screen out all traffic except access to a license, the only way to truly deny access is to not have a connection.

For over 10 years I have championed Autodesk as the CAD provided of choice. I have been responsible for a number of license purchases and I have taught students who have no doubt gone on to use or buy Autodesk products themselves, having heard nothing but good things from me.

Sadly I will no longer be doing this. I cannot support Autodesk as a company going forward while they have absolutely no regard for the feelings of their customers.

[brotherkennyhmusk]

Unfortunately our cries are clearly falling on deaf ears.

Autodesk refuses to listen to our complaints and will push on with its plans regardless of customer feeling.

The only way I believe we can effect change is by voting with our wallets. Simple stop buying Autodesk products. If they don't sell many subscriptions they will pretty quickly start selling perpetual licenses again.

The cost of CAD software is quote frankly getting ridiculous, growing far above inflation for many years, it is time to investigate open source alternatives on a wide scale.

[OBERDACKER]

@felice.s Could you please clarify how the following two statements are both accurate. In the "desktop-subscription-2016-customer-brochure-en.pdf" on the second page under the heading "Function and flexibility" the fifth bullet point states "Access files stored locally on your computer, even without an active subscription". Yet on the Desktop Subscription FAQ page (http://knowledge.autodesk.com/customer-service/account-management/subscription-management/subscripti... in response to "Where do files created using Desktop Subscription software reside?" it states "Although an actively licensed Autodesk software product is required to open and edit files, you retain all your local data." When the brochure states "access files stored locally..." does this simply mean you have the file? Or does it mean you can open the file and view it's contents? Will you be able to print copies? When the FAQ states "...an actively licensed Autodesk software product is required to open AND edit files..." does it mean you will be able to open your files without actively licensed software, but you won't be able to edit the file? Or does it mean you can neither open NOR edit a file without actively licensed software? There's a big difference there and it is not at all clear what someone with Desktop Subscription will and will not be able to do.

[brotherkennyhmusk]

Perhaps Autodesk could share its revenue/profit figues for the last few years and the projections to coincide with the change to desktop subscription.

No doubt they wouldn't be comfortable sharing that information, but it would be interesting to know.

[felice.s]

Hi @OBERDACKER, Having just read the two resources, I understand your confusion and would love to clarify this for you.  Let me dive in a little deeper and I'll reply with some details as soon as I get them.

Regards,

Felice

[jeff.edquist]

smoke  and mirrors- yes perpetual seat owners will continue to use licenses, but wiht no upgrade improvements. Also then no bug fixes.

For most vendors half of your upgrades, service packs, hot fixes - call tehm whatever are simply a fix for yoour own bugs. Be honest.

There will be a time when your off maintenance perpetual seat is too old to run on the latest Operating system, which would then force  a company to pay your subscription in order to "rescue" their data. Unless of course they wisely move to another vendor offering perpetual seats.

There are quite a few of them last time i looked.

[3dben]

felice.s, 

A network license will not be an option either. No computer in a classified lab can have any possible way of connecting to the outside world; this includes the server. The only way to install software is to take software in on a CD/DVD. Data can go in, but nothing goes out.

[felice.s]

Hi @3dben are you referring to my reply about "network subscription" and how it could be a possible solution for closed networks?  (This topic is going in many directions!)  To clarify, whereas Desktop Subscription requires occasional connection to the outside world (internet), network subscription does not.  It requires a connection to an internal server within the company running a network license manager (licenses can be shared in this model as well.)  Hope that clarifies. Thanks!

[brotherkennyhmusk]

Hi felice.s,

From a practical point of view it is perfectly possible to have the network license manager on the same PC as the product and install only the license for that machine. So it is technically possible to work around that problem.

I think the point Autodesk are missing is why should we have to? Nobody questioned if it was possible, just why we should go to the extra hassle.

With network subscription are we still going to be generating a license file to put on the licenses server?

Also network licenses cost significantly more. Are you going to remove the additional cost so users are not penalised in this respect?

In regard to the number of topics discussed in this thread. We are discussing one topic -"Keep perpetual Licenses", it just this topic has a lot of discussion points to get accross and trying to get them across is like banging your head against a wall.

If you like we could start an entire forum section called "keep perpetual licenses" and i will endevour to maintain a new thread for each point i have raised?

[felice.s]

Hi again @OBERDACKER, I wanted to close the loop on your questions/post about "access" in this thread here.  Thank you for alerting me to messaging that you consider unclear and I will work with those teams to clarify. 

In the meantime, I wanted to mention a couple of points about access:

- regardless of where the file is stored, the work product and data you create using the tools (licensed under subscription) belongs to you.

- although an active subscription is required to edit or add information, we have many free viewers (for the most common file types) that you can use to access your work, to some degree, without an active subscription.  Check out this page for a list of viewers and the access they provide.

- If you stored your files using Autodesk’s cloud storage and your subscription expires, you can continue to access and view the files for an additional 30 days. After 30 days, your account will revert to the free offering and as a result, your cloud storage will be reduced from 25 GB to 5 GB.

hope that this is helpful.

Regards,
Felice

[wolfgang_nickl]

Hello Felice,

to view a Word document with a viewer is o.k., to do this for some causes in CAD also.

But if you designed inteligent CAD-Data e.g. with iLogic or have complex assemblies,

a viewer isn't access to our work!

Stop your way to non permanent licenses, because otherwise we have to stop using Inventor.

Regards

Wolfgang

P.S. my Kudo for you was a mistake.

[felice.s]

Hi @wolfgang_nickl, I understand that you will have reduced functionality with a viewer compared to the actual software, but I wanted to make the community aware of the viewers that we do have.  No worries about the accidental Kudo.

Regards,

Felice

[BrianMcLaughlin2503]

It's pretty clear that perpetual licences are finished. In a way it's good that Autodesk have changed the face of CAD design forever by opening a big door to their competitors who may understand their customers. The options are looking better every day. Such a shame.