Why are you removing the Perpetual License model?

Why are you removing the Perpetual License model?

JohnnyRandom
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Message 1 of 83

Why are you removing the Perpetual License model?

JohnnyRandom
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Complex question I know, I am listening. Please do not white wash it, with something ridiculous like "it is better for the user". Straight facts, why are you removing the perpetual license model? I personally see this as I am losing the freedom of choice, the choice to reward autodesk with my continued support, only to be replaced with pay to use it or lose it.
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Message 61 of 83

Anonymous
Not applicable

I used/purchased/requested Acad since about R9, many many years I've been a loyal user ...............I WON'T be requesting nor reconmending this product in the future, too many other options out there these days to put up with this BS, so long and good luck .

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Message 62 of 83

Anonymous
Not applicable

I do not believe this is in the best interest of the customer – it is a policy decision that is best only for AutoDesk, and even then it is questionable because your customers may decide to abandon a pricey subscription when other alternatives are available without the ongoing cost burden a subscription imposes.

 

The argument that this allows AutoDesk to be "nimble" is spurious.  Too many times, I have had to find work-arounds for bugs in AutoCAD, Revit, et al., that should have been solved a long time ago.  We are still working with some of the same problems that plagued AutoCAD v10 - this does not evince a sincere attempt at "nimbleness".

 

I strongly advise reversal of this decision, and suggest that AutoDesk offer perpetual licenses to those who want them, and subscriptions to those who want them.  Otherwise, you may find you have alienated a profit stream that will vote with their wallets.

 

Cordially –

Rev. Carl G. Harkins Jr, AIA, NCARB, LEED AP BD+C

 

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Message 63 of 83

mark_hogan
Explorer
Explorer

Software as a service makes sense for something like Google Docs. You are not doing this. You are basically offering the same product with a completley different payment structure that costs the end user almost twice as much over a 10 year period. It is exactly what Adobe did, and it's a terrible model from the customer's perspective (but great for your earnings). I resent forking over thousands of dollars a year for something I won't actually own. 

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Message 64 of 83

JohnnyRandom
Advocate
Advocate

I am glad to see others as disappointed with the narrow visioned decision as I am.

Frankly speaking, I am beginning to believe that this is singularly the best thing autodesk could have done for their competitors. This may just be the leg up they need to get a firm foothold back into a monopolized market.

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Message 65 of 83

rkmcswain
Mentor
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mark.hogan wrote:

I resent forking over thousands of dollars a year for something I won't actually own. 

In my opinion, Autodesk's answer to your statement above is "Tough, what are you going to do about it?"

Because you don't really have a choice if you want or need to stay with Autodesk products.

 

I wish customers would have a choice to buy or rent.

Actually, we have had that choice for a while now, and the buying has been outselling the rental by a wide margin (In my opinion again.)

 

 

 

 

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
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Message 66 of 83

owen66
Advocate
Advocate

"There is a self-survival aspect to this change.  Software companies in general are shifting to more "software as a service" models."

 

you are basically saying "everyone else is doing it, so we will too". this latest version of ACAD is touting "smooth circles". come on! there's nothing left to offer, so Autodesk is chasing (forcing) revenue. 

 

"Mobile computing is driving an expectation of productivity anywhere, anytime and from any device."

 

Have you ever tried using AutoCAD on a mobile device?

 

"Big data is feared by many, but it is ultimately driving demand for more individualistic experiences by consumers.  These trends are impacting design in most industries, but you can find even more industry specific trends when you look closer at manufacturing, civil engineering, gaming, etc."

 

i would guess that the vast majority of firms are not working on massive projects with massive data sets. i may be wrong, but i would imagine there are TONS of small time architecture offices that still work in 2D that have zero need for the power of cloud computing (or at least their needs isn't enough to justify this pricing shift)

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Message 67 of 83

owen66
Advocate
Advocate

http://www.autodesk.com/products/autocad/features/new/list-view

just read through this list of new features (i'm assuming marketing didn't pick the crappy changes, but went with the best - and if that's the case, this update is nothing useful)

 

"Minimize the need to undo an operation by using Command Preview"

lolwut. who would use this??

 

and the video showing the new smooth lines and arcs? lol.

 

how about hatches? are those any quicker, or easier to work with? or how about something like being able to record a QUICKSELECT function in an action? that might be useful!

 

 

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Message 68 of 83

pencilbox
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Autodesk can try to spin this any way they want, but the bottom line is: Autodesk's bottom line. This is Autodesk's new extortion model.

 

I've been round and round with Autodesk on this. The "logic" that it's better for small business is false. People buy houses because they get tired of spending on apartments with no return for their money. This is no different, a small business can NEVER own anything in this scenario. I posed to Autodesk that if users subscibe for a year (to a Suite Product) , at the end of that, they should be entitled to like a 25% discount to then buy a perpetual license and put it on subscription. (This would be be for the Suites only, not individual products).

 

But instead, Autodesk does not want to encourage people to buy their software. They prefer the extortion model.

So yes, its all only about bottom line.

 

As both an end user and a stockholder I'm appalled by all of this. I am hoping another company will come along with a product that users can and will switch to.

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Message 69 of 83

Andrew1307
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@CatsChaiTea wrote:

There are a few drivers for us (Autodesk) to make this change.  I won't whitewash it, but you may still be skeptical of the reasons.  We are acting now in anticipation of changes we strongly believe will disrupt the way our customers work in the future and also because of disruptions in the software industry. 

 

Some of the visitors to this forum believe we are doing this solely for our own bottom line and for the shareholders and accountants out there that just care about numbers.  There is a self-survival aspect to this change.  Software companies in general are shifting to more "software as a service" models.  If you search the web for "software industry trends" you will find reports by accepted consulting firms on this transition.  And we are taking a cue from history.  There are many documented examples throughout technology's past that companies that fail to recognize substantive changes often become casualties of the change.  We would really like to be here for you five years from now, ten years from now.  Do the shareholders love that our strategy ensures they see continuing profits from our operations; of course they do.  But that doesn't mean we are doing it for them. 

 

The more compelling and interesting reason behind our change is what is happening to design in all industries.  Mobile computing is driving an expectation of productivity anywhere, anytime and from any device.  Cloud computing is providing cheaper and faster alternatives to perform intensive computing processes.  Distributed teams, not all of which work for the same company or in the same geography, require collaboration capabilities to be integrated into software.  Big data is feared by many, but it is ultimately driving demand for more individualistic experiences by consumers.  These trends are impacting design in most industries, but you can find even more industry specific trends when you look closer at manufacturing, civil engineering, gaming, etc.  These are the real drivers behind "software as a service", because integrating these capabilites into our solutions for our customers requires our software to really behave like a service, and a connected service at that.

 

So, why does this result in our discontinuation of sales of perpetual licenses?  Here are two reasons.  One is again taken from a study of technology's past.  Companies that are slow to recognize and respond to disruptive changes are more likely to be overtaken by small, nimble and emergent competitors that they didn't even see coming.  By the time they do, it is too late.  We don't want that to be us.  The second reason gets into software accounting rules.  A perpetual license sale requires us to deliver all value and recognize all revenue at the time of the order.  That makes it very hard to offer continuous access to services or even to design our software to be more of a service.  Services recognize revenue over the time the service is provided.  One of the most common methods to achieve this is through a subscription model.  As long as we sell perpetual licenses, we cannot fully embrace the design advantages of mobility, cloud, collaboration and customization into our software.

 

Anxious to see your reactions. 

 


You absolutely do not need to trash perpetual licenses to acomplish this goal. 

 

Microsoft has perpetual and subscription going side by side. 

 

The users who want perpetual licenses dont need to be "connected" nor need continous updates. 

 

The thought of loseing access to my data just because the subscription runs out is terrifying. Nothing Autodesk has said addresses this issue. 

 

I have a seat of Autocad 2009 residing on a box for legacy custom software. There is no consideration to this scenario in the new subscription model. 

 

By all means, have subscription models for those that need to the flexibility that it offers. But keep the perpetual licenses for those that need/want it. If SAAS is going to be so great and in demand then perpetual licenses should phase themselves out automatically. If not, then well there is still a need. 

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Message 70 of 83

Anonymous
Not applicable

I think it is a stretch by AutoCAD to say that they are doing this all because of trends of history.  Yes, by all means, there have been companies that have failed to move forward that get trampled in the dust.  And I won't go as far as to say that this is solely for money, but it cannot be denied that if a customer only updates its software every 7 years, AutoCAD earns less money than they do by requiring them to pay a rental fee yearly.  If the company loses money, the board of directors and stockholders will take action.

 

But the flaw in the whole thing is that AutoCAD made these moves without inquiring into its own customers as to whether they see a need for these moves.  If as AutoCAD has said, they are seeing these changes in the design industry, then their own customers should be able to speak aptly as to whether the proposed move by AutoCAD fits into how they are doing things or not.  To my knowledge, this was not done or if it was, it was done with a poor sampling (proably on their biggest customers).  But the biggest share of licenses are by small companies.  Were they queried?  I know I was not.  But I only have 4 or 5 copies of LT.  Who cares whether I see evolving trends in design?

 

The next observation is that simply put, AutoCAD is now a lemming.  Rather than blaze a trail, it is now content to say that because others are doing it, so shall we.  That AutoCAD has gone from a leader to a follower is sad.  The elimination of the perpetual licenses was not necessary.  It was always just what it was.  A snapshot in time.  It was never a promise of anything more.  You buy it and you got what the program could do at the time of buying it. How does this prevent the future from happening?  Simple answer is that it does not. 

 

There has always been signs that AutoCAD is uncaring to its customers.  The fact that AutoCAD LT had not network support was a big sign.  Those who only need 2D have been like lent in a belly button.  No one wants to touch them.  The elimination of the perpetual licenses is another especially when claiming that not doing so makes the company fall behind the pack.  Yes, by all means, look towards the future of having your license follow you to whatever device you want.  That is wonderfuil.  But does such innovation actually represent the majority the AutoCAD users and their needs?  The simple answer is that it probably does not.

 

Now, a company has to protect itself.  I do not intend to imply that a company should run itself out of business.  But AutoCAD should not hide its motives.  The elimination of the perpetual licenses does not prevent the future it sees.  Desktop subscriptions could move on and those who want to use it could.  Those who do not, would not have to. 

 

Any accountant can tell you that more frequent and more predictable revenue payments is more desirable than infrequent payments.  And one aspect of the elimination of the perpetual license is those more frequent revenue payments.  Again, I do not want to say that it was the only reason, but any blunt inspection of the matter sees that it was not the future of design that was the drove to the elimination of the perpetual licenses.  Design as we see it could have continued.  Those who want multiple devices could have gone with the new subscriptions and those who see design staying where it is could have stayed with the perpetual licenses.

 

The big lie is that the perpetual license had to be removed for the sake of the future. 

 

 

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Message 71 of 83

Anonymous
Not applicable

I HAVE been using Autocad since ver1 wthout issue, and have never had one reason to even visit or write anything in this forum, or say one bad thing about this company, unill this BS, came up  AND I CAN TELL YOU WITH COMPLETE CERTAINTY .... if this becomes your new license policy,  MY relationship with autodesk will be INSTANTLY TERMINATED, OVER, AND FINISHED FOREVER

 

I will NEVER BUY INTO THIS SUBSCRIPTION RENTAL

 

you guys seriously need a reality check

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Message 72 of 83

rkmcswain
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Mentor
jaydemi wrote:
......I CAN TELL YOU WITH COMPLETE CERTAINTY .... if this becomes your new license policy,  MY relationship with autodesk will be INSTANTLY TERMINATED, OVER, AND FINISHED FOREVER

 

If your current license is perpetual, then you are free to keep using it in perpetuity.

 

But when you need a newer version because your partners, clients, etc. require it, then you'll either have to pony up to Autodesk or go elsewhere and take your chances.

 

Trust me, Autodesk pays a lot of smart people a lot of money to analyze the situation before making major business decisions like this. They are fully prepared to lose customers like you. However, I'm quite sure the total percentage of lost customers will be impossible to notice and difficult to even measure.

 

Good luck.

 

 

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
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Message 73 of 83

Anonymous
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Does Autodesk want to get pirated? Because this is how you get pirated if you keep imposing monthly subscription.
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Message 74 of 83

owen66
Advocate
Advocate

kinda hard when you have to authenticate against their servers on every usage.

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"Aah, there's nothing more exciting than science. You get all the fun of sitting still, being quiet, writing down numbers, paying attention...science has it all."
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Message 75 of 83

Anonymous
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Autodesk has a lot of smart people to analyze major business decisions, quite the opposite when it comes to their management of software development.  Each and every update of ACAD has been larger and slower in spite of faster processors and higher memory.  The learning curve of each upgrade has increased to the point where its more productive (and less expensive) to stick with older smaller versions.  Finally, the space is populated with other offerings that are run by software developers.  In short - short Autodesk - they're toast.

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Message 76 of 83

owen66
Advocate
Advocate

i'd love to see them focus on their BIM products, migrate all their devs to other products and open source AutoCAD. they're just not adding features that matter anymore.

 

or maybe open source a super lightweight version that can still be automated with LISP (the biggest downside to LT)

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"Aah, there's nothing more exciting than science. You get all the fun of sitting still, being quiet, writing down numbers, paying attention...science has it all."
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Message 77 of 83

robincapperrcd
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Doubt they'd open source AutoCAD, still the platform which makes significant chunk of their income

Robin

Sent from my Lumia 1520 Windows Phone

Robin

AEC Collection & BIM 360 | Windows Surface Book & HP Z6 Workstation | Android Mobile

RobiNZ CAD Blog


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Message 78 of 83

spacefrog_
Advisor
Advisor

@owen66 wrote:

kinda hard when you have to authenticate against their servers on every usage.


Rent only licensing prevents nothing regarding piracy - and the phone home statement is not true either

Adobe Creative Suite is perfectly available as pirated version - and it's using the same licensing scheme/technology Autodesk uses/will use

An "unpirated" Adobe CC suite requires to phone home every 30 days or so after being initially licensed


Josef Wienerroither
Software Developer & 3d Artist Hybrid
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Message 79 of 83

owen66
Advocate
Advocate
i feel like between Inventor, 3DSMax, and Revit that AutoCAD's market is dwindling. it seems that ACAD is being used by small firms that are just doing what they know from 10 years+ ago (my firm included). it's like there's a large market for needing a drafting coordinate system, but maybe not as large as what ACAD has become.

and open the open sourcing aspect, look what MS is doing - i never would have guessed at the current direction of the company under Ballmer. so weird things ARE possible 🙂
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Message 80 of 83

rkmcswain
Mentor
Mentor
RobertBenz3551 wrote:

Autodesk has a lot of smart people to analyze major business decisions, quite the opposite when it comes to their management of software development.  Each and every update of ACAD has been larger and slower in spite of faster processors and higher memory.  The learning curve of each upgrade has increased to the point where its more productive (and less expensive) to stick with older smaller versions.  Finally, the space is populated with other offerings that are run by software developers.  In short - short Autodesk - they're toast.

 

I believe their business decisions include the knowledge of the things you mention about AutoCAD. As I said, I bet the percentage of existing customers who drop them over this isn't even measurable.

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
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