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As Autodesk continues to move toward a single business model, feel free to use this forum to ask questions about the upcoming maintenance plan changes.
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Moving to Subscription

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Post 1 of 126
Accepted Solution

This is crappy

2580 Views, 125 Replies
03-02-2017 11:52 AM
Dear Sirs, why not be honest. You are not doing this to save customers money; you are doing this to make more money. And there is no benefit for switching over, it is the same program.

Basically if you no longer sell licensed copies then you have a guarantee of continuous payment from everyone using it; whereas some users probably buy one copy and never upgrade so that is money that you are not continuing to make. This is fine, but don't pretend that you are doing it as a favor to your customers.

Also I have $10,400 invested in this program and have only been using it for a year and a half so don't try to tell me that by letting you keep my $10,000, dumping my licensed copy and giving you more money to rent the product that I have already purchased is beneficial to me! That is ridiculous.

Further more, my maintenance price is $1,000 per year, I would be willing to bet that your subscription price is significantly higher than that.

Thank you for your reply @felice.s

 

It's difficult to look at what the most cost effective option is, for different periods without a better indication of future costs.

 

2. So,  Example 1, we switch this year for 3 years subscription at a 60% discount. The same discount continues to apply after 3 years if we renew our subscription each year? If it's a lower discount, what will it be?

Example 2. We switch this year for 1 years subscription at a 60% discount. That discount continues to apply if we renew our subscription each year up to the end of the 3 year period and then changes or changes after year 1 is up? 

 

One other point, that may have been raised. For those that keep their perpetual license and their maintenance expires, will they still receive bug fixes etc?

Post 2 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-02-2017 02:31 PM in reply to: ESchomberg

I agree.

 

We specifically chose Inventor over Solidworks because Inventor was still available as a perpetual license.

 

Now Autodesk is attempting to force everyone into the subscription model.  There should be a revolt among users over this.

 

Here are a couple of reasons:

 

1) It's one thing to rent the use of a product, but quite another to be held hostage over access to your intellectual property.  We all invest a great deal to create content using the tools Autodesk provides.  That investment is many, many times greater than the cost of the software used to create it.

 

If for some reason we decide to stop using Autodesk products, we can't access (and edit) the content we had created in the past.

 

2)  Similarly, the subscription model holds customers hostage for price increases.  If you decide to switch to another CAD product because the price of Autodesk becomes uncompetitive, or for any other reason, once your current subscription runs out, you lose full access to your intellectual property.

 

Offering both perpetual licenses and subscriptions if a fine model.  A company may choose to have one perpetual license to ensure they will have access to legacy content, and numerous subscriptions for production, but it sure looks like Autodesk intends to squeeze the perpetual licenses out of existence.

 

Maybe I'm being a little overly grouchy about this latest paradigm shift by Autodesk because I'm still stinging from the change in terms of Configurator 360.

 

We were happy to pay $355 per quarter while we were in the development / investigation phase, but after spending several months working on a project they removed the monthly and quarterly options and replaced it with a $3000 annual license as the only option.

In the meant time they are pushing Engineer to Order, which costs several times more than Configurator 360, which made me wonder if we would end up spending countless hours developing a project for C360 only to find out we either have to switch to a product that costs tens of thousand of dollars or jettison the investment we had already made.

 

It's a matter of trust, and Autodesk is losing mine.



Post 3 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-02-2017 02:42 PM in reply to: ESchomberg
Yeah, no doubt. They should grandfather in the ones who have the license( without trying to force them to lose it). If they keep pushing I will just use the copy I have from here on out without upgrading and they will never get another penny from me.
Post 4 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-02-2017 03:28 PM in reply to: ESchomberg

Perhaps someone from Autodesk can explain why maintaining both a subscription model and maintenance model is so expensive...?

 

Is it administration or does the cost have to do with differences in the software?

Post 5 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-02-2017 03:47 PM in reply to: ESchomberg
Funny you mention that.... Exactly what I thought. The software should be the same. It's the same program. And how is taking my $1000 per year to upgrade costing them money? Not to mention the other $10,000 they already have of mine.
Post 6 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-02-2017 04:04 PM in reply to: ESchomberg

I guess the security methods might be different, though.

 

I'm willing to listen to what Autodesk has to say. I won't pretend to know their business -- maybe there's something I just don't understand.

 

Users place a lot of trust in a software supplier.  Like I said, the investment in developing the intellectual property is much greater than the cost of software and I would think the people who are renting the software would ESPECIALLY want to know they could trust Autodesk.  Just think, they could just drop a product subscription altogether, including free readers, and you couldn't get to files you spent tens of thousands of dollars building.

 

That's why I want perpetual licenses.

 

 

Post 7 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-02-2017 04:23 PM in reply to: ESchomberg
Well the thing is, I spent a great deal of money on this product with the understanding that I own a copy forever, and have the option to upgrade every year.

Now they are trying their best to get me to switch over to renting it because supposedly it costs more money to keep supplying the service that I paid for.How is that my problem? It should not be. Nor should they try to get me to pay more money to fund their expense for re inventing the wheel. They are probably billionaires anyway.

Post 8 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-02-2017 04:27 PM in reply to: ron.c

If it the administrative costs, I strongly suspect that relatively insignificant and not the real reason for their push here.  If software, then maybe they plan to release updates differently in the future, perhaps in smaller batches more often than in a big annual release. 

 

Of course having us on all on a rental style subscription plan is likely to offer Autodesk a much stronger and more predictable cash flow.  Their stockholders would like that I'm sure.  Bear in mind Autodesk is merely following what other industry leaders like Microsoft and Adobe have done with their own product lines.

 

 

Post 9 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-02-2017 04:54 PM in reply to: qupola

"Bear in mind Autodesk is merely following what other industry leaders like Microsoft and Adobe have done with their own product lines."

 

Yes, and that's why I stopped buying Adobe products after about 25 years of using them.

 

As for less time between releases is concerned, I don't want to have to install and migrate too often.  Once a year is only worth it if there are major improvements.

 

 

 

 

Post 10 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-02-2017 06:05 PM in reply to: ron.c

I'm on the same page.  In case I wasn't clear in my previous post, these industry trends alarm me as well.   Rented software and more frequent updates are not for me either.  Just pointing out that Autodesk is hardly alone in their pursuit, for better or worse.

Post 11 of 126

Re:

03-03-2017 01:17 AM in reply to: qupola

Unexpected price increases are bad news and make me feel disappointed and somehow "mistreated" (being a loyal customer).

But I will NOT move to subscription and I will NOT discard my annual maintenance plan.

I prefer to pay a 5% or a 10% more and to keep my 3dsmax perpetual license alive.

Sorry... I know that Autodesk is entitled to change his business model but I am not a fan of rental-only plans.

Too much control in the hands of the company... too little in the hands of customers.

 

 

 

Post 12 of 126

Re: Re:

03-03-2017 07:15 AM in reply to: Michele3D1980

You would have to be insane to downgrade a perpetual licence to a rental, it makes no financial sense.

There's only so many times you can keep chanting this mantra of 'simplifying' and 'it's for our benefit' -that got old a long time ago.

I'm pretty sure your shareholders wouldn't stand for being kicked in the teeth for as long as your users have.

Post 13 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-03-2017 08:21 AM in reply to: ESchomberg

Does anyone know if 2016 was the last of the permanent/perpetual licenses. If we install 2017/18 what will they be? Right now we are still current on a maintenance plan but I thought I read some ware that 2016 was going to be the last of the permanent/perpetual licenses.

Product Design Suite Ultimate 2016

Sometimes you just need a good old reboot.
Post 14 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-03-2017 09:15 AM in reply to: ESchomberg
I could see Autodesk at some point completely discontinuing the maintenance plan. I think they are just doing it gradually as to not stir up too big of a bees nest. If that ever happens I would probably seek legal council.
Post 15 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-03-2017 09:19 AM in reply to: ESchomberg

Let me explain one of my concerns about a subscription model with a analogy...

 

Today, you can choose to lease a car or own one.  Which do you prefer?  One option is better for some folks and the other for different folks.

 

Suppose that Al Gore get his way and decides that the best thing for the planet is to eventually eliminate automobiles.  (For everyone but himself, of course.)  He gets a law passed that eliminates new car sales -- leasing is the only option. 

 

He offers incentive to trade in your owned car for a temporary good deal on a lease.  At the same time, he raises property taxes on owned cars.  The carrot AND stick approach.

 

Then the cost of the least goes up and up, squeezing people into public transportation.

 

Then, one day when the majority aren't driving cars for themselves, anyway, Ol' Al just ends leasing.

 

You would wish you still owned your own car!

 

- Ron

Post 16 of 126

Re: Re:

03-03-2017 09:45 AM in reply to: Michele3D1980

Seems my last post here mysteriously disappeared.  Not sure if I'm seeing the effects of censorship or something else is going on  Fortunately I still had a draft about to edit and repost below:

 

-----------------

 

IMHO, Autodesk has been disingenuous in their announcement to us, as ESchomberg claimed at the start of this thread.  They paint it as a fantastic opportunity for customers that still hold a perpetual license with a maintenance contract.  Indeed, some customers may very well see their offer that way.  But others will not, for reasons some have already well-articulated here in this thread and elsewhere under the individual product forums.

 

For me, it's not the announced price increases that irk me as much as their ongoing and steady attacks on perpetual license holders.  Making new perpetual license seats unavailable for purchase was an early step.  Now they have dropped the option to renew multi-year maintenance subscriptions as a fait accompli.  (For those of us who took advantage of them, they typically offered customers an additional price incentive over one year renewals).  Note how Autodesk's announcement came AFTER setting their new policy in place.  This is not the way to retain customer loyalty.

 

Re Ray's question about perpetual licensing:  They're perpetual.  As long as your maintenance subscription is paid up, your perpetual license privileges extend up to and through the latest version.

Post 17 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-03-2017 09:45 AM in reply to: RayFeiler

Hi @RayFeiler

 

We announced the end of sale of new perpetual licenses in Feb. 2015, and on July 31 2016, we stopped selling new perpetual licenses of the Design & Creation Suites (such as Product Design Suite Ultimate.)  However, if you are maintaining your Suite on a maintenance plan, you will receive updates as they become available.  These updates are still perpetual licenses.  They are not subscription licenses.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Felice

 


Felice S
Global Customer Support & Operations
Moving to Subscription | About Autodesk Subscription
Post 18 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-03-2017 09:49 AM in reply to: felice.s

@qupola@felice.s, Thank you for the clarification.

Product Design Suite Ultimate 2016

Sometimes you just need a good old reboot.
Post 19 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-03-2017 10:39 AM in reply to: ESchomberg

On more rant form me...

 

I may be missing something, but I fail to see how a subscription model provides incentive for Autodesk to improve products.

 

If you are under subscription, you have to continue to pay whether the product is being improved or not.

 

If you have a perpetual license, you can choose to be on maintenance or upgrade based on whether the product improvements are worth the additional investment.   We choose to be on maintenance for our copies of Product Design Suite Ultimate and HSM Pro.  (We love both products -- they are worth every penny!)

 

If you don't understand these basic economic principles, just think

 

 Please don't misunderstand me, Autodesk has a right to change their business model (unless one considers that there was an implied contract to continue an upgrade path), I'm just saying that the net result is likely to remove at least one of the incentives Autodesk has to improve their products.

 

- Ron

 

 

Edited by
Discussion_Admin

Post 20 of 126

Re: This is crappy

03-03-2017 10:46 AM in reply to: felice.s

Felice S,

 

Will the perpetually licensed products be exactly the same as those provided by subscription?

 

Will upgrades be available just as often for the perpetual licensed products at those provided by subscription?

 

One other statement or commitment I would like to see from Autodesk is some cap on the increase in cost of maintenance plans and a commitment not to end the maintenance plans for those of us who responded to the ads a year ago that said it was our last chance to buy perpetual licenses.

 

Thanks!

 

- Ron

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