Ram speed vs Ram Position. No filling profIle stages found. ERROR 306026

[jesus_aguilarA6EDJ]

Hello team,

I've been using Moldflow Insight Standard this last year since we acquired it for a large project and usually for Filling control I use Automatic,

Recently we had an issue with a part injection warpage and an expert put a profile to maintain injection pressure and avoid material stress. Part was injected successfully.

Now we need to do it with some other products but I can't simulate profile stages!!

Moldflow keeps sending ** ERROR 306026 ** No filling profile stages found.

I'm attaching some screens so you can see and let me know what I am doing wrong.

I set all machine information correctly.

Thank you.

[Lorena.Rivas]

@mason.myers any input?

[Lorena.Rivas]

.

[mason.myers]

Hello @Lorena.Rivas ,

I was under the impression that the ram position needs to be in descending order so for your example, the first ram position should be 12.9, not 1.5.  You could also try a Relative Ram Speed profile which does not require specific machine information.  

Mason

[bernor_mf]

Hello @jesus_aguilarA6EDJ ,

agree with @mason.myers .

And the starting ram position is actually set to 0 (!).

Probably the reason for error  message.

(And cushion warning at 13mm.)

You need to set a reasonable starting ram position, something like 15 mm, and cushion warning at 3mm.

Regards,

Berndt

[jesus_aguilarA6EDJ]

Thank you for your answers.

Yesterday was holiday so I came back to work today.

Already did it before even posting it but the result is the same.

I'm sharing with you some screenshots, the profile curve is the one we need, so it should work properly, still don't know what is happening.

 

 

 

[jesus_aguilarA6EDJ]

Already did it, check my last answer to Mason. It seems as it moldflow is not reading it, it would be acceptable (maybe) if moldflow would put a message like "profile is wrong", but it is putting no stages found which is kind of weird

[bernor_mf]

Hi @jesus_aguilarA6EDJ ,

thank you for the update.

This is really a strange behaviour.

You see the graph of profile, which I think confirms that it should work, but as you write, solver does not read profile. Weird.

Maybe study has become corrupt? An idea is to roll back to new study, with a simple model.

And enter data again, just as a test.

Otherwise I believe Autodesk tech support need the study file to troubleshoot it.

Regards,

Berndt

[jesus_aguilarA6EDJ]

Hello Bernor,

Yes, it is weird. Made another study, this time with relative ram profile but result is still the same.

I am reducing flow rate to reduce pressure as more material is injected, it should be result in the behavior as the absolute ram profile.

 

 

 

[bernor_mf]

Hello Jesus,

it is strange that it stops after "Total Projected Area" in analysis log.

Next headline is:

Process Settings:
================

Machine parameters:

It does not reach:

Filling Control:
---------------

Which release of Moldflow are you using?

(I did some tests in 2021.2, and it is working as expected.)

What happens it you used default molding machine, just adding screw diameter?

If something happened with UI, Synergy, a reset by cleanreg can be done.

But is a long shot in this case.

Is it possible for you to share the study file?

Or, share with Autodesk tech support for investigation.

Sorry, I have no direct solution for this behaviour.

Regards,

Berndt

[jesus_aguilarA6EDJ]

Hello Berndt,

I did request Autodesk support and they concluded that this configuration is not possible with 3D Mesh, only with Dual Domain mesh, problem with DD meshes is that these differ a lot more from real results, even if match is over 95% and ratio less than 10.

So for the last said, warpage measurement is not going pretty well, Warpage differs even 30% from reality so the uncertainty window increases a lot more.

Autodesk team said they will fix this bug with 3D mesh for next version release/update.

Until then the answer they gave is that I do need to use Legacy (obsolete) to do it, but I'm not so much confident about it, will see how it goes.

Thank you team for your help & comments.

[bernor_mf]

@jesus_aguilarA6EDJ 

Hello Jesus,

thank you for the feedback and sharing the findings with the community.

Is much appricated.

Worth trying the Legacy ram speed profiles (obsolete), I think.

Compare Analysis Logs from DD and 3D mesh types, to understand differences.

Maybe also run both Absolut ram speed profiles and Legacy ram speed profiles (obsolete) in DD mesh type to understand the difference of Filling and Packing (and leave Warp out in that case).

Regards,

Berndt

[jesus_aguilarA6EDJ]

The main difference between both results is not due ram speeds.

The main issues appear at warping results, when I start to measure mesh warping.

I already made both simulations with the same parameters that first ran (with constant velocity, no ram profile), and results are different, I used global edge 1mm on both cases DD & 3D Mesh, same packing, cooling, etc., just with the difference that one is DD and the other is 3D and the difference between both is nominal 20%.

These warping differences are about 0.015" among them.

I don't know exactly why the difference but it is not the first CAE software I don't trust in shell mesh results when you charge a lot of real parameters.

Shell meshes are good for first instances and design but not for optimization or fine results, that's the main reason I use 3D meshes, it takes more time but results are more exact.

The main reason to use ram speeds is to try get the same results on moldflow than the real ones we already get on tolerances.

After getting the same results (or the closest ones) I will begin set different profiles to get the best suitable results on machine.

I will run 3D mesh with legacy ram speeds tomorrow, as today I'm busy on other things at my job.

[mcmustafacaliskan]

Hello,

I think, you should   increase control steps numbers. please increase them, etc  make 10 and try again. 

[jesus_aguilarA6EDJ]

Hello Mustafa,

Already did that last week as Autodesk team recommended me but that didn't solve the issue.

Already set Legacy (Obsolete) ram speeds and it worked, but I see these are not so similar as real results, I don't know if it is due to this obsolete solver.

Thank you!

[mcmustafacaliskan]

I understood, please make linear in machine set-up and try again with absolute ram profile. Do not constant.