Making it "real"

[Anonymous]

Greetings All!

Okies, I'm working on the little side project...mainly for sh!ts and giggles...and as I'm getting close to animation and rendering time, I'm trying to think ahead here a bit.  Please know that I'm not a total newb to Maya...been working in the software for a few years now, but as I'm sure most folks know, it's an on-going learning experience...and in this case, I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for...

In short, I'm doing a little Star Trek animation...for those fellow Trekkies out there, this is TOS, mainly based around the Enterprise.  This project really is just for fun and my own learning experience...mostly something to keep my hands (and mind) busy here. To cut to the chase here, as the thread title implies, I could use some tips or advice on how to get the animation to look more "realistic".  Here's a couple of quick renders with basic lights (to give ya'll an idea of where I am so far)...

As you can see, I'm most of the way thru the modeling and textures.  I still have quite a few things to tweak here and there, but over-all it's coming along pretty nicely (IMO).  The problem is that, even though I realize this is fairly simple/basic lighting, it has that cartoon'ish look...and that's what I'm trying to get away from. I know that a great deal of it comes down to lighting and textures, but it REALLY feels like I"m missing something here...although I'm not sure what exactly (Camera? Rendering options?  Post effects? Voo-doo??).

Over-all the project/animation is also going to include a second starship, probably a space station and I certainly want some of those classic shots from the original series (the ship orbiting a planet and such).  I'm also going to -try- and do one shot similar to the opening of Star Trek: Voyager, where the ship comes up thru planet rings...but that's a different bridge to burn (LOL).

As far as specifics go, I'm working in Maya 2013...mainly because my main system still has XP64 on it (and no, not ready to upgrade this system yet), although I do have another system here with Maya 2014 and Windows 7.  Also, unless someone has a pratical suggestion otherwise, the plan (for now) is to render in Maya software.  Mental Ray is nice, but the render times can be a serious pain in the wazzoo...the full animation will likely be around 10 minutes when it's finished and since I'm only going to be rendering on 1 or 2 systems here (no farming available), render time is a sizable consideration.

So there we have it...I could use some tips, suggestions and perhaps a push in the right direction on how to get this little project looking a bit more real, if not a tad more professional.  Again let me please emphasis that this project really is just for fun, it's a learning experience and the work should only be considered as "fan art"...I just want it to look nice 🙂

Thank you in advance for any assistance...I'm grateful!

[ZEICHEN.TRICK]

one other thing i see when i check your pictures is that spaceship model shape consitis of multiple parts

so you have no smooth passes between the differnt parts because the mesh is not connected. which is important for realistic light reflection and rim light look.

so its better to build up your model in one part and bevel the edges for a smooth look

...the realism is coming with details

[Anonymous]

"one other thing i see when i check your pictures is that spaceship model shape consitis of multiple parts

so you have no smooth passes between the differnt parts because the mesh is not connected. which is important for realistic light reflection and rim light look.

so its better to build up your model in one part and bevel the edges for a smooth look"

Thanks for the comment Rick and I will most definately keep it in mind, but I'm gonna have to chew on that one a bit.  In essence, we'd be talking about doing the whole model over again, pretty much from scratch and I already know there are some problems there that I'm just not experienced enough to solve at this point.  Doing the textures alone on a 1 piece mesh would be....yikes (although I strongly suspect it would speed up my render times significantly).  Not to mention, the "moving parts"...the bussards on the nacelles, the shuttlebay doors, the blinking lights, etc....no clue where I'd even begin to start with all of that.

Again I'll have to chew on that a bit...might be something to consider for the Mk-IV...

[Anonymous]

Ok...I just spent the better part of this afternoon playing with things and doing some tests and I'm coming to the conclusion that we're off track here regarding the lights and the model itself.  At this point I've pushed and pulled those lights in a thousand directions until I'm blue in the face and each render, both Maya and Mental Ray, looks essentially like the same ship...except with the lights pushed and pulled in a thousand different directions. Likewise, just for the benefit of the doubt, I put together a very basic single mesh, more or less in the same shape as the ship and a few early renders are showing me the same thing...I just don't think the problem is the lights or the geometry here.

Perhaps part of the problem is simply that I started this thread off wrong...I'm not trying to create a "photo real" still here, I'm trying to create a believable animation.  Think in terms of some older sci-fi shows like Andromeda or Babylon 5...I don't know what software either of those shows used (Lightwave perhaps?), however I suspect that even by my Maya 2013 standards, it pales in comparison.  That said, while granted, I'm still watching them on my old 27" CRT (with 320 x 240 rez), the CG work in both of those shows is believable and really helps to sell the show.

For the sake of reference, I've posted one of the 30 second animation tests to my Youtube account...

Over-all it doesn't really look "bad" (a tad dark unless your in full screen), but it's really got that CG look that I'm trying to get away from.  I'm almost starting to wonder if it's actually more a matter of needing to "dumb things down a bit"...in other words, that it almost looks too good and that's what's throwing it.  After all, the original show was recorded using film of a physical model...makes me wonder how much of that was really just an "in camera" thing.

I am going to try a couple of experiments tomorrow...if nothing else just to satisfy my own curiousity.  I do happen to have some video equipment here - a couple of hi def camcorders, my DSLR's and a couple of older Hi-8's, so I'm going to try and shoot some video of the video, then transfer it back to the computer and see if that gets me closer to where I want to go.  If nothing else, I'm much better with a physical camera, at least as far as nuances go, then I am at this point with with specific camera settings in Maya, so we'll seee how it goes.

[J450NP13]

That looks great.

[ZEICHEN.TRICK]

keep it up!

[Anonymous]

Alrighty...been working hard the past few days, doing lots of tests and playing with various settings and after something of an epiphany this morning, I think I'm finally getting closer to the look I've been after...

I still have a bit of tweaking to do with the lights (yes, I need a bit more fill light on the front of the saucer section and those stupid bussards are STILL driving me nuts) and I haven't even started the bump mapping yet, but I think I'm finally on the right track here.

BTW...it's worth mentioning that while the background (the planet and stars) were comp'd in seperately in Photoshop, that still is -1- pass...no AO, no depth passes, etc...and it rendered out in 10 seconds flat, so I think I'm gonna be in really good shape regarding render times too 🙂

I do thank everyone who took a stab at it, but I guess this one was just one of those things that I had to work out for myself.  My band is doing a show tonight, so I'm gonna setup for a nice, long over-night animation test render and if it comes out looking as good as it does here, I think I'll be in good shape to start moving towars production.