Community
Maya LT Forum
Welcome to Autodesk’s Maya LT Forums. Share your knowledge, ask questions, and explore popular Maya LT topics.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

WHY does Maya LT have a polycount export limit??

21 REPLIES 21
SOLVED
Reply
Message 1 of 22
EoinOBroin
9603 Views, 21 Replies

WHY does Maya LT have a polycount export limit??

Maya LT is designed for game development, right?

 

So how come we can't do one of the most common practices in game development when modeling? Export our high and lowpoly models to an external baker/texturing software for games? Turtle is extremely slow and doesn't work most of the time, whereas a tool like Knald works super quickly and provides all the features I'd want in a baker at my fingertips, so the logical thing to do is bake there. However I can't export my highpoly model from Maya LT due to the polycount cap, so I have to resort to breaking up my model into small chunks and exporting them one by one which does the same thing but takes forever. This is a really stupid and flawed design choice since highpoly models are very relevant in game development and even more so with Photogrammetry meshes becoming more common (highpoly cleanup and UV's in Maya). 

 

Is there a reason this limit exists, or is it there just to hinder the creation process and slow things down to a grueling piece by piece export?(Often times a single piece goes over the limit so I have to wait around for the reduce tool to work or else manually delete edge loops- huge waste of time) Please just remove the cap, raising the limit to a few hundred thousand polys isn't enough for detailed HP models. There should be no cap, and shouldn't have been in the first place. 

 

Maya LT should feel streamlined and efficient, not limited by an easily lifted poly cap. It's an extremely powerful and effective piece of software, but this annoying limit really feels completely out of place. 

Tags (1)
21 REPLIES 21
Message 2 of 22
cornelh
in reply to: EoinOBroin

@EoinOBroin

 

First of all thank you for the praises for Maya LT.  (BTW I use Knald myself and it really rocks!!)

 

Maya LT was designed for the Indie and Hobby user for the most part (not full game development for AAA, etc..)

 

Maya LT is 30 dollars a months it has a cap as we wish not replace all the 185 monthly revenue from the full Maya

 

This is all about economic, is you wish to have all the bell and whistles you have to pay for them.  That is also why the file format is different

we did not wish to create a direct competition to our flagship full version, yet we wanted those with less resources to have access to some

of the great features of Maya.

 

So yes the cap was implemented as a way to not compete with the full Maya.  (many large studios would simple replace all their current full seats with LT regardless of their productions, Film, TV, Game etc.. if these caps did not exist)

 

I do know that many limitations in Maya LT have changed since it's first release, and who knows what will change going forward.

 

I will send you thoughts to the Maya LT Development team, yet for now you will have to live with the Cap on Polygon exports or upgrade to the full Maya.

 

Best of luck

Message 3 of 22
EoinOBroin
in reply to: cornelh

@cornelh 

 

Thanks for the excellent response!

 

Apologies if I came off a little hot headed in my original post- had spent hours breaking down a model so it could be low enough to export in chunks. 

 

It makes a lot of sense that you don't want LT to compete with the full version, however I think the difference there would be in the fully featured dynamics systems, offline renderers, full python support (which would be amazing in LT to use Epic's ART tool for UE4 btw), more advanced animation/motion graphics/pipeline tools etc.

 

You mention that Indie and Hobby users are targeted, but highpoly modeling and baking for texturing is still very much needed by those users as it is for AAA studios. I could understand the cap if it was infeasible to get the highpoly model out of the Maya i.e. smooth mesh preview to polygons disabled, but having all the work done and the highpoly model ready to go, just to have to spend an additional few hours breaking down the model into parts and separating + reducing these parts to fall within the cap feels very counter intuitive. It's almost like "save time and upgrade to the full version of Maya so you can export in one click instead of 500 clicks".

 

I strongly feel that if you can do it in LT, exporting should be supported. I literally have no other requests or gripes- it's the perfect tool for creating models and animations easily and I'm extremely comfortable using it, just the cap constantly comes around to cause frustration and lots of redundant extra work.

 

I'll say this, I did pay for the full version of Maya for a year, and spending that kind of money just to be able to export my highpoly models in one click is absolute madness. It's far too much money for a solo developer to spend without a comfortable budget. A possible idea- remove the polycount export cap on LT, but rework the terms so that studios and other entities earning over a certain amount of money per annum/ have a certain amount of users that goes over the "indie" guideline may not use Maya LT?

 

Thanks again for taking the time to consider this request, LT is SO close to being super streamlined in my pipeline, just needs that one click export and the redundant time taken per asset to export will no longer exist. 

Message 4 of 22
cornelh
in reply to: EoinOBroin

@EoinOBroin

 

No worries, no harm in making your voice hear!  I will definitely send you info upstream to where decisions as those are made!  

 

I wish you the best of luck in your projects and hopefully soon you will make a killer game and the price differences won't make a bit of a difference for you.  As far as the cap on polygons, I must say via market studies, that in the VFX, film, tv and games, etc.. pipelines Maya is mainly used in the modeling and animation steps, as other apps have entered the arena for FX and particles in which the work is shared or not as heavy on the Maya side.  So we end up with huge studios (I won't name any, as this did happen when we first released Maya LT) will have all their modelers just on Maya LT to then pass the models on to use on other areas of the pipeline.

 

We had many cases where they get very vocal to say the least when they realized that they could not bring their mlt files into the full Maya!!  As I stated earlier it would be great if everyone played fair but they don't.  The cap might increase (I don't make that decision at all)  yet it won't be getting that much bigger.

 

Again best of luck on your projects and thank you for voicing your concerns.  Hopefully Maya can regain it's crown in some of the other areas and this will be a non issue in the near future!  Cheers and happy Polygon shifting!!

Message 5 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: cornelh

I totally agree with Eoin0Broin, your Polygon limitation is totally stupid : i started to devellop my own game alone, and when i want to export some high poly model, i'm always have to watch my poly acount and sometimes i have to split my model and re assemblate it with blender. Yes i downloaded Blender only to do THIS. 

I speak with many indie devellopers and everyone says the same thing : Maya's Lt is a good idea because having all the modeling, uv's and animations tools is awesome to work but this poly limitation break completely our workflow and pay the full version only to not have it is dumb.

So my advice is you have everything to gain by removing it, because this limitation does not encourage the independent developers community to buy the full version, it only negatively impacts your reputation and pushes some of them to turn to other software.

 

I say it again with all due respect for your work: you have everything to gain by removing this limitation.

 

Message 6 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I totally agree with the above poster. The limitations of maya LT  alongside the forced push to purchase a full version for some, honestly rudimentary, features are backbreaking for someone working solo.  There should be a Maya Full subscription license for $20-$30 a month for the solo developers who are a step down from Indy companies.

Message 7 of 22
EoinOBroin
in reply to: Anonymous

Agreed. Honestly I've cancelled my renewal for MayaLT and switched to Houdini Indie which offers far more and has no such restrictions. You can even make use of all the industry standard VFX modules to make particle flipbooks etc. Sorry Autodesk but limiting Maya like this has been a bad move, I snapped after one too many times breaking down a model just to meet the limit before I called it quits and moved on. Tools like Maya should make the process of baking and exporting models fast and easy, not unnecessarily slow due to a limit put in for monetary reasons. MayaLT should have full python support to make use of Epic's rigging tools, no poly limit for exporting high res models to bake(as the baker in Maya is unbelievably slow and inconsistent) etc. For a software aimed at game developers, the limits make no sense. The pricing model for the full Maya is fine for big studios, but you alienate most regular users by having a poly limit on MayaLT. The software just isn't worth that much if you have to pay for other tools like the Adobe suite, SpeedTree etc. 250$ a month just to export a highpoly model from Maya is madness, you can buy a full year of Houdini Indie for almost the same price which has tons of great tools and fast polyreducers/bakers that make Maya feel very old and outdated. I put a lot of time and effort into supporting and using Maya but I feel it's best to move on and either let Autodesk adapt or else eventually fail as more and more studios / indies switch to newer, cheaper solutions (many studios have deep historic pipelines set in Maya, but as competitors offer better solutions, there will be change and they won't stick forever).

Message 8 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: EoinOBroin

Never heard of houdini, if it's a 3d modeling program then perhaps it's something I should look into.  I love the autodesk suite, but for someone who's just experimenting on his own with goals to eventually create a game, I don't have an extra $200 to dish out at the end of every month. As you said, this cost is split amongst a plethora of other needed software: adobe creative suite, substance painter (reasonable monthly price), visual assist, and tons of other must-have tools.

Message 9 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: cornelh

The name of the product is indeed correct. Limited.
It's not a lesser version, lacking features, it's not something that just doesn't have the latest stuff, it's intentionally limited, it has features restricted. Stuff that should not be limited, locked away.  
Such a program should not even be sold, LT, so excessively limited, should be free. The modeling is great! But the inability to export a high poly model, is downright insulting. So many restrictions.

So, maybe the name of the product is not correct, maybe Restricted would be better.

Message 10 of 22
bob.blunderton
in reply to: Anonymous

As another somewhat-frustrated Maya LT user, I care to ask what the poly limit is?

Is there some page that says the limits on poly-surfaces, triangles, UV's (two per surface IIRC, which is fine), etc?

 

Thanks, and yes, I share your pain on the Maya limitations (especially on exporting rather industry-standard DAE objects).  I also understand (having been in small business many times in my life, for a majority of it) the business perspective of not wanting to pull one's rug from under their feet, but not wanting to alienate customers either.

Message 11 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: bob.blunderton

I would not stress about this. I am surprised no one is discussing this on the LT forum: the Maya/Max Indie experiment is I think going to succeed, and before long Maya LT will be phased out. The price point they have chosen is the same as the LT price point. I don't believe the theory this is a bait and switch trap, and they will either discontinue or rack up the price of Indie. Indie won't lose them the big corporate sales but will tempt more "forever students" who use the free student version for non profit work and persuade some pirates to get legal.

 

I never (despite a lot of nearly doing so) invested in LT because the combination of subscription/price point/limitations did not make sense to me. I instead sometimes get a 6 months subscription of Modo indie (similar restrictions, but a renderer and a lot cheaper) or make do with my old Modo 801 license, or very occasionally make do with Blender. I use the student version of Maya (legitimately) in the forever student category (do stints with cgSpecturm, FXPhd, Gnomon Workshop, Pluralsight, buy courses of Gumroad etc), at the current Indie price point I am very likely to buy a subscription even though I currently make $0 from 3D. 

 

Be patient and before long you will be able to get Maya or Max for the same cost you got LT - no limitations just a cap on earnings. Autodesk gets a lot of criticism, and this experiment - followed through - deserves praise.

 

Message 12 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: EoinOBroin

Just convinced my boss to switch over to LT cause he was spending way too much on the full version, only to just find out this export limitation exists after I spent the last 2 hours retopoing a photogrammetry model. Are you serious? This limitation isn't even explained on the product comparison page. I'm gonna spend the next month learning blender 2.8 and just tell him to cancel his subscription outright. 

Message 13 of 22
GLecakes
in reply to: Anonymous

I really think Autodesk needs to look at this again especially with Retopology tools inside of Maya LT.

Having an artificially imposed limit on being able to export OBJ files and FBX files is ridiculous. Especially when I can use the game exporter to get around this for FBX files.

By committing to having Retopo tools in Maya LT, you are declaring that we should be able to work fluidly with high-poly meshes and low poly meshes.

I am the exact customer who Maya LT was designed for. I use Maya for the 3D modeling tools, UV layouts, and basic rigging and animation for game engine assets. 

We should be able to move assets between applications such as Z-Brush and Substance Painter for baking and re-working without worrying about a poly limit cap. 

I hate that this one silly restriction is what has me keep Blender installed on my computer so that I have the freedom to export as I choose. 

Message 14 of 22
magillaGuerilla
in reply to: cornelh

"a matter of economics" - then make it $5 more expensive and give us the feature that is required to make LT at least somewhat useful. Don't just lock out the single most important aspect of the program and expect us to shell out $250 more for non poly limited export.

 

Message 15 of 22
bob.blunderton
in reply to: Anonymous

I will have to have a look around for this indie version, because that is what I need.

I have a mod project - the Los Injurus city map project for BeamNG Drive - it's just a mod project.  The mod costs me money via Maya, and my indie-license terrain tools, and graphics software I pay for (GNU Image manipulation tool doesn't do everything, but paint dot net helps some).  It also costs me via assets such as models and textures I purchase.

Not being able to export my tunnel in one go will cause draw calls to raise and scene render to be much harder on the CPU because of it.

I am making a somewhat close to AA or AAA grade city in a game, a whole city, the size of GTA V's map or darn close to it.  It's a LOT of work, however, with a modular road kit and other scene elements which go together in the in-game editor, it saves a lot of time putting them together like popular-brand kids plastic bricks, almost.  However, I'd rather not break this up as much as currently need to.  I don't want to make something as simple as a 10~15 year old game here, I want it to look REAL and be current generation fidelity.

I am disabled physically and sometimes can't even use the computer, on a fixed income, and otherwise can't really afford to plunk down the cost of three-digits worth of subscription to one program a month - especially not with the likes of Blender out there for free.

Big AAA companies shouldn't be using the LT or 'indie' version, it should be for folks who's income isn't over a certain amount or corporation doesn't have the worth that an AAA studio or other big-name studio has, which needs to be buying top-dollar Maya subscriptions.

Microsoft fought piracy in China by making Windows licenses available at a price they could afford.  It worked, there's a lot less piracy out there; but at the same time barring absolutely free software (which isn't feasible) you're never going to convince the 12-year old illegal downloader kid living in mom's basement to pay for much of anything if he has no money and no bank cards, either.

Case in point:

Windows license cost 100$ or so here for the OEM 'tied to the motherboard' license, 200$ for the full retail package with support and freedom of hardware upgrades - but in China it's around 5$ or so in bulk packs, around 6~10$ for a single license.  Why so cheap?  This is what it needs to be or very few people will pay for it, due to the disparity in differences of incomes between United States (where I am), or places like Australia or Europe, VS places such as China, or India, or other places where the weekly pay average isn't quite what it is for 1st-world countries.  This is how Microsoft has fought against piracy and it works - it's not perfect - surely there's still people who will pirate things or try and take 'the cheap way out' even if it doesn't apply to them - but they're already doing that anyways even if you sit and do nothing. 

You have everything to gain and nothing to lose by seeing the customer's needs are met, no matter how rich or poor they may be. 

If you're worried about support costs, put up a ton of YouTube videos (or some other video hosting service) and link them to the tutorials page, and make support 'extra' on the indie versions or limited to the first 90 days etc, or via forum post only.

 

I am a modder, I am not even an indie developer, I don't even clear 100$ profit a month, because all the money goes back into the project when and where possible.  It's a donation-supported project, with a few dozen supporters paying average of 3$ a month.  It's not much, but it's currently holding it's own.  I don't bring in enough to pay for a full Maya license every month, but I do have enough time to make some cool stuff.  I'd just rather not do it with Blender, as Maya for me is easier to use interface-wise, not due to special tools in Maya.  In other words, I love Maya when it's not bugging out or acting up (which I generally hand in as bug reports if I have any sanity left at which point), but with free alternatives like Blender - and possibly no affordable avenue without an 'Indie version' of Maya, the only place I have to go is clean out the door and to cancel my subscription - costing Autodesk yet another customer.

Again, I repeat, I'd love to be able to afford the full version of Maya, but I can't.  I don't pirate anything, period.  If I cannot afford it, and no free alternative (open-source) exists, I do without until I can afford it.

World Machine has indie licensing.

Unreal and other similar places have indie price plans.

A lot of software has it, and Autodesk is only going to miss out if they don't implement something similar.  You've already got the software made; make it available to folks, and they will come cash (or card) in hand.  You might lose a few people but those will be outnumbered by new customers and the community goodwill improvement should more-than make up for it.  This will not be instant success overnight, there will have to be some adjustments here or there as the world changes constantly, just like the game creation scene and Maya itself - but there is everything to lose and NOTHING to gain by failing to keep up with the times.  Having artificial limits for hobbyists who don't have the income stream to support top-dog software prices just pushes them away - same goes for indie software groups who - because of limits - can't make a decently detailed game even if they have the ability.  So in-stead of going for the full version of Maya, they use Blender.

Don't be the next Sears, please.  They failed to adapt to the ever-changing marketplace, and went from sales leader where you could even mail-order a HOUSE, to not even having any profit or catalog at all.

 

Use of earnings caps, seat caps, and possibly max number of employees, is what works best.  No one wants you all to butcher the cash cow and cook it for dinner.  These are not customers you are possibly going to lose, they are customers you ARE currently losing, customers you are going to lose, or worse, have already lost!

 

Send this to Autodesk, if possible, and thank-you for your time and consideration.

--Just a disabled guy who mods games because he can't really do anything else.  A disabled guy who won't get hired making low-detail game environments, that's for sure.  Not getting hired means less money in the future for me, and for Autodesk.

Message 16 of 22

Add me to the list of indie game developers quite annoyed with the artificial and frustrating polygon limit on exporting. No one will ever specifically buy the full Maya just so they can overcome this, when they can export multiple objects, import them into Blender, and re-export them all together.

 

You are just making it a hassle for people to use your software, not encouraging them to buy something way more expensive that you offer.

 

The regressive attitude towards things like this in Maya is slowly pushing me away from Autodesk, which is a shame because it is such a self-inflicted and petty wound. I am happy to pay 30 a month for Maya LT, for the most part. I think it's great software, but that the full version of Maya should be a valuable tool for expanded features, not 'unlocked' features. Not features where you have to add code to reduce the capability of the software artificially from what it was before.

Message 17 of 22

This poly limit seems even more ridiculous now that you can get Maya Indie for not much more than Maya LT.

So the Autodesk party line about being competition for your own product and whatever other points were put forward are completely unfounded or disingenuous.

The only entities disadvantaged by this are the loyal Autodesk users who now have hundreds of files in LT format that they can't use or transfer.

Message 18 of 22

"The only people disadvantaged by this are loyal customers with hundreds of models in LT format."

 

This, entirely this.

In-stead of converting all those files (which I could export with FBX anyway then import or convert, bypassing this, though I'd have to write a batch script for that and hope nothing else is messed up), to another Maya format and risk going through this again, people flee to other sometimes superior solutions.

Sometimes, just sometimes, the customer IS always right - or at-least most of the time.

 

The up-front mandatory one-year purchase of Maya Indie makes it off limits to me, on a fixed income.  That's more than my grocery budget for the month INCLUDING eating out a few times a month with family members.

Message 19 of 22
Anonymous
in reply to: EoinOBroin

A 250k limit in 2021  is a joke, this needs updating its not 2015, or whenever lite came out, anymore. What niche is lite now looking to fill? It's not even usefull for indie studios anymore. This among other reasons is why the studio I work for are all moving to Blender. It seems Autodesk is unwilling or unable to keep up with industry change. 

Message 20 of 22
tj.galda
in reply to: EoinOBroin

Hi there,

 

We have some interesting things in the works currently with our beta program.  If you're interested in trying out the beta and letting us know your feedback, that would be great!

 

Feel free to email us with your name, job description, studio, and a quick sentence on what you'd like to try out for the beta by sending an email to:

 

MayaBetaRequests @ autodesk . com

 

 

tj

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Autodesk Design & Make Report