Do load you vice into the assembly?

[ArjanDijk]

Hello.

As I'm using HSM and HSMWorks for a few years now i have to following question for you as users:

Do you program mostly in part mode or do you work in assembly mode with machine vices loaded?

I see myself most of the time working in part mode because it saves time. Like to hear your opinion and reasons.

[Charlie_Wright]

It depends on what I'm doing, if I'm working on a vertical I usually just Machining a part. on a horizontal or a vehicle with a 4th axis I load in the tombstone or a vice Tower in to an assembly it's way more work but easier to check for collisions.

[lenny_1962]

I always program in the assembly and here is why.

1) make material for the part, never use the automatic material, don't like it

2) I make configurations of the part to remove details to make machining easier per op, drop each one into assembly then use display states.

3) when adding sketches for ops that need sketchs in assemblies you don't have to add them to the parts themselves keeping the parts clean.

4) add all my coordinate positions for cutting as they are not tied to the part files.

5) and of course use it for adding vise jaws ( allows assembly cuts that do not propagate back to the part file), clamps, bolts stops and whatever else needed to see or avoid.

now there are rare times I have machined in a part file, that is when I just need to drill some holes or face material, make a sketch and program, post the code and then not save to a part, close and done.

one other thing that is nice if you prep the assembly, say HSMWorks cannot do what you want, you have made up how the setup would open in another CAM package, open said assembly and start using it to program the code in that package.

yes I have to do this when I want to flow cut multiple faces and use a constant stepover\scallop so the ball cutter will waterfall to the tangent of the cutter.

I cut alot of 3D parts or 2D rads that wrap around where flow works better and faster than scallop. 

[ArjanDijk]

And do you guys use automated scripts (ilogic or something comparable) to place the vices? Or do you just add constraints every time you machine a new part?

[lenny_1962]

In SolidWorks they are called Relationships not constraints 

Yep all the time, bad modeling if you don't, just like blue sketches a no no, lock them down.

don't use Inventor or Fusion

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

Usually, I program in the part file.

Assembly uses up a lot of time for little to no gain for me.

[Steinwerks]

I'm with @Laurens-3DTechDraw, I program in the part for the most part unless there are fixture considerations (very rare for us). Plus since we use SolidWorks PDM that means creating an assembly that needs to be tracked with the part to maintain the programming with the part, and it's far easier to do so in the part file. We do a lot of vise work and simple measurements keep notes about parallel heights or softjaws consistent in the Setup sheets.

As soon as probing hits HSMWorks I'll be one happy camper for sure, and we've already started moving away from using fixed work stops in many situations.

[Lonnie.Cady]

I only program in assembly.  The only thing in the assembly many times is the part.  I don't want any other geometry or cam data in the part file.  I want just a clean part file.

Since in SW you an add assembly level sketches, chamfers, fillets I can make containment sketch and  cosmetic fillets etc.... with no effect on part file.

[lenny_1962]

@Steinwerks

First 

Yes you would have to have SW PDM track it, but here is another consideration the more things you add to the part file the larger it gets then that propagates to the assembly that those parts are in making that assembly larger and if that assembly is a subassembly that grows the main assembly which can play havoc working via network, yes I know you load the file locally, so.....

making a machining assembly doesn't enlarge the part file size and anything added stays in the assembly even new parts stay internal not having to save them out as individual parts like material tabs, clamps, jaws, cap surfaces for holes or whatever you need. 

Also you can you that assembly file and the toolpath for like parts kind of like a template, learned that from Keith Carlson when I first started using HSMWorks trying to use configurations. 

I know assembly machining isn't for all but it is a lifesaver for us prototypers that never machine a part more than once or multiple sided and needing to make fixture to hold the part for cutting or nested parts out of a chunk of material holding down with bolts, double stick or a vacuum plate. I also have to glue up material out of acrylic that isn't a solid chunk do to cost so I do that in the assembly then 3D Adaptive only cuts where the material is.

I was a SW Application Tech and Instructor for 3 years so I understand the workings and downfalls from customers questions and problems in SW.

@Lonnie.Cady

 DITTO! you just said it better than me 😉

@Laurens-3DTechDraw

 1 to 3 clicks to get an assembly going is a big waste of time on most parts?

here is a wing out of acrylic for the wind tunnel here at ASU, will be 4 sided machining, 2 ends, top and bottom, using hot glue and casting resin to hold together until the last op. have to do 8 of this with different winglets.

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

@lenny_1962

Just doing those three clicks isn't. But that doesn't add anything for me.

I just get another file to track somewhere. Since we don't usually design a whole machine the part size doesn't matter and having another file hurts.

So, therefore doing it in an assembly would only help it I added the fixtures etc. but that takes too much time 9/10 times for me.

[Steinwerks]

Once again I agree with @Laurens-3DTechDraw, and again, this is situational. If I didn't have a whole file and naming scheme to contend with I'd do it more, and sometimes I have to when the fixture dictates it, which isn't a problem. But making an assembly for a few hundred parts that we do on a regular basis and then maintaining that added file count (sure it doesn't make the SLDPRT file bigger, but it adds bulk elsewhere, you can't get away from that) is pointless for us in our situation. 

That HSMWorks works as well in an assembly as it does in a single part file is great, it means I can choose either one and know I won't have issues or quirky behavior, unlike CAMWorks which really sucks in an assembly.

[ArjanDijk]

A lot of the comments tell me that it take to much time to load it. I think you guys are right. 

Please have a look at this idea:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-ideas/easy-to-use-fixture-and-vices-library/idi-p/6763129

[MattWallaceVRTX]

Assembly.

I have a read only assembly file that has my fixtures, stock, part, coordinate systems for work offsets, a couple of jobs, and a bunch of typical toolpaths.  The part and stock are virtual parts, the part is just an empty part used for reference, and the stock is defined by two sketches.  When I get a part to program, I open this assembly, save it as a new name, replace the empty part with the part to program, and modify the stock sketches to fit the part.  Work offsets are already defined, and all the model based toolpaths have the parameters ready to go and only need to be regenerated.  A simple part can be programmed and posted in a matter of minutes.

[ArjanDijk]

Can you post some screenshots?

[Bartlett-Pentagon]

I learned early on with the first release of,HSMWORKS to only program in the assembly environment. If you program in the part environment, and later pull it into asembly, all toolpaths are lost. Don't know if this is still the case though.

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

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@Bartlett-Pentagon wrote:
I learned early on with the first release of,HSMWORKS to only program in the assembly environment. If you program in the part environment, and later pull it into asembly, all toolpaths are lost. Don't know if this is still the case though.

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You can just copy and paste them no worries.

[MattWallaceVRTX]

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@Arjancncmachineworks wrote:

Can you post some screenshots?

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Yes.  I am just back from break today and off tomorrow.  I just stumbled across Rob's video about templates after seeing the video about the ultimate 3d toolpath, and his templates are conceptually the same.  Stay tuned.

[Fieldweld]

Never have done this. I use a corner of the stock block for most parts or the right inside corner of the fixed jaw and the top of the parallels.   When I cut jaws to fit a part I bring in the jaws and the part (s) as an assembly and use a corner of the fixed jaw as X Y Z zero. For three axis which is all I do on the mill using an assembly file which has the vice serves no purpose.

[Vohnsen]

Nope never use it... the time i use on it is just not worth it..

I do have tombstones made and stuff for my bigger jobs but its not often i use it.. most i just make the program cad in the file.. easy peasy

[Anonymous]

Great conversation. I am deciding how I want to template my process. If the assembly gets templates properly, it seems like it would be a really automated process. The part programming is really easy and when pressed, younjust bounce over to cam and start programming, but the assembly mode would seem to waste less time going to future ops or fixturing cosiderations. Seems like there isn't a one size fits all answer to the guy who neither has to worry about naming convention nor file size issues.