Testing IPJ Search Path Validity?

[phlyx]

We have been having quite a few issues with network response lately and today something happened that makes me think it's not the network or server, it's something in the IPJ search path.  There was a part and drawing that were located outside the project's work path that I was working on.  I copied the IDW and IPT to my project folder (still on the server).  When I opened the part, it popped right open.  I did a Save As and saved it as a new part.  Was going to do the normal thing, open the IDW, do a Replace Model Reference and point to the new part.  When I tried to open the IDW, it was still pointing to the old part that was outside my current project's search path.  It took ten minutes to open.... ugh.

I did a Replace Model Reference, saved the IDW, closed it and when I opened that one it opened in about 2 seconds.  

Question is, is there a good way to test the validity of search paths in the IPJ?  And are there things that should be avoided or done to assure good response when setting up the project IPJ files???

All help greatly appreciated! 

[phlyx]

Also, not sure if there's something up with folder/file access.  I can go to the Open dialog box, double click on a folder and it takes several seconds to open the folder.  Not sure how to test that.

[phlyx]

And I guess I don't understand Inventor.  Had a full machine assembly open along with a load of sub-assemblies and drawings.  Decided to try to alter my project file to see if something in the path was affecting it.  Closed everything but didn't close Inventor.  Didn't do anything to my project file but tried to re-open the main machine to time it as a base line, Inventor status bar got to this almost immediately:

And I waited over 10 minutes and it never changed at all.  Killed Inventor with Task Manager, re-opened Inventor, then opened the exact same machine assembly and it opened in 6 minutes.  🙄

[craig_embry]

I briefly had a similar problem after an Inventor or perhaps windows 10 update for both Inventor '20 and Auto-CAD '20.  When I installed Auto-CAD '21, the problem of opening files on the server (with lag) disappeared.  Same for Inventor '21.  I am not sure it was actually Inventor, I believe it was a windows problem or perhaps Inventor got partially corrupted somehow.  As much as I hate to suggest it, maybe a fresh install will fix the issue.

The specific issue some were having here was a major drag on the server when opening files.  I could go to the task manager and watch the network Ethernet meter shoot way up when doing so.  This told me Inventor/CAD was searching on the server for something on the server.  What, I  do not know, but it took way too long to open files.  Updating to the new version fixed it, but I believe a reinstall might have worked too.   Unfortunately, due to time constraints at work, I did not have time to test this theory and we were upgrading soon anyway, so I passed on it.

I wish you luck, but do suggest a reinstall.  Let me know what the result is.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Scott,

The screenshot shows there are files loaded in the memory, not yet released. It is likely a memory leak. When you close all documents, the counts should go back to zero. Does File -> Close -> Close All help reset the counter? If not, I suspect there is memory leak (corruption). Please share the files with me directly johnson.shiue@autodesk.com. I would like to understand the behavior better.

Many thanks!

[phlyx]

Thanks Johnson and Craig, we would like to understand the behavior, too.  Really doesn't make a lot of sense.  There was some server work done but we were told that shouldn't have any affect on our files or access but seems that some issues started then, assemblies were taking 2X - 5X longer to load.  Some days I can load a machine assembly in a couple minutes, next time I can wait 15 minutes and nothing loads.  Just tried to open the machine I was working on yesterday and it was opening in 6 minutes, first time waited 15 minutes and was stalled at 2 files, rebooted and been loading to +10 minutes today and stalled at 910.  Not sure how to find or fix corruptions and the last thing the behavior is, is repeatable.  And also the end of last week with these issues I completed uninstalled Inventor 2020 and cleaned all files and did a complete reinstall with SP's.  Still does the same thing.  And was thinking it might be something in some of the IPJ paths so started a new one with just the minimum of paths and still does the same stuff.

[phlyx]

Not sure if this is more info relating to the cause but decided to Pack-and-Go the top level machine to a sub-folder in the main project file structure, single path, and try to open it from there.  When I selected the top level model and clicked Search, it's taking an extremely long time to locate all the files.  

[phlyx]

Test done.  Was loading the machine from the regular folder location on the server this morning, waited over 15 minutes and never loaded.  Killed all processes, did a Pack-and-Go on the top level machine to a folder in the same project file, single path.  After completing I switched to the project file it created, opened the same model and it opened fully in 5:15.   Seems like something is happening with the way the Inventor searches for files in the paths the IPJ file points to.  Not sure if there's an issue with something in one of the search paths and definitely not sure how to find it and fix it.

[craig_embry]

This does sound more like a server/connection issue.  Have you tried to move one of the assemblies over to the local machine/computer and test from there?  Use design assistance and open your assembly in there.  Copy all assemblies and parts to the new location.  It takes a bit of time doing this so pick a smaller assembly, but is the only way to "disconnect" the link and create a standalone assembly without it linking back to the server parts/assemblies.  [Hint: you can select multiples in design assistant by holding shift and selecting.]

After you have it on the local hard drive, create a new project file for it and then open the assembly.

Let me know what results you have on this.

I was going to paste some screen shots, but for some reason, it won't take the uploads here.  Let me know if you need help with the design assistant. 

-->Also, you can check your root directory for the project files, if you go to the "Home" page in Inventor and click on the "Project" button.  This will open the projects window and you can view all of your project files here along with location.  I whited out mine because the customer names are present, but here you can see where it points to.

[phlyx]

Already did that but I did a Pack-and-Go to my local drive.  I have an SSD drive and it's super fast but still took 3-1/2 minutes to open the assembly.  It took 6-1/2 minutes to open it when Pack-and-Go'ed to the server in a single path using the P&G IPJ file.  And +15 minutes to open the regular location with the normal IPJ file. 

[craig_embry]

I haven't tested the pack and go against where it will pull the files from [Inventor may just go looking for them on the original path - not sure], this is why I suggested design assistant to ensure the file location and where it is reading from.  I have personally never liked pack and go's.

Is this problem just on one machine/computer or is this problem repeatable across multiple computers?  If this is one computer and you are sure the files are being read locally (for the test), then this could be a memory problem as someone else suggested.  Make sure you have network monitor open and watch it when you are opening, you can see here if it is accessing the network when opening.  Also, if you have duplicate files on the server that are for the assembly, Inventor could be linked across multiple folders, which would cause loading delays.

[Frederick_Law]

In Project, Options: "Using Unique File Names".

If it is On, IV will search all available folders (all paths in Project) for the file when It cannot find it first.

So if you have a few network locations, go have lunch.

IV will not remember full path of the files.  It'll search most of the time.

If it is off, IV will only look at the folder it supposed to be and stop if its not there.

IV will remember full path of the files and only open from that path.

I have mine OFF since a long time ago.

Either way, do your best to avoid same file names.

[phlyx]

This is across the board and on different projects.  Issue is worse with some than others.  Was doing some searching thru the paths late yesterday and found in one of the folder structures, there was a folder with 6 files *BUT*  2,894 folders that appear to be vendor names.  No one seemed to know where those came from or why they were there, but removed them from the path so they are not in play anymore.  After I did that, the main machine that was taking over 15 minutes to load, if at all, took 4:35 to open.  All seemed well and looked like that was it.

BUT (again), this morning I tried to open the same file and it loaded 1 file and stalled.  So I killed the process, changed the project file to NO for unique filenames and same thing.  Changed unique filenames back and just let it run and it finally loaded the file, but the same file that opened in 4-1/2 minutes yesterday, took 21 minutes to load today.  21 MINUTES?!?!?!?!

And another thing I noticed today, too.  When I was in the Open dialog box and I click on Projects, it takes +10 seconds to open the Project's dialog box.  Really frustrating, tough to be productive when it takes 1/3 hour to load a file, feel like I'm back on DOS 3.0 and 5-1/4" floppies  ☹️

[craig_embry]

In response to the folder structure, I would run some malware software on the affected computers, just to make sure.  Folder structures as such remind me of virus/malware attempts to hide themselves.  It's worth looking into. (How many other folder structures like this could exist that you haven't seen?)

But since this is across the board, I recommend getting your IT/Networking team on this issue (if not already).  If this happened after the update to the server, it would only make sense that something has changed on the server side that is causing this behavior. 

Things we have considered:  Inventor assemblies lag on open-sometimes stop*

Problem exists and is repeatable across multiple computers.

Problem started shortly after a server update/maint.

Problem exists locally (on single computers HDD or SSD) and on intranet server remote mapped HDD/SSD(correct?)

Problem persists when full assembly is copied to local drive for testing and loads the same as on server intranet.

Unique file setting under project options has no affect.

Reinstalling Inventor has made no difference in loading time

If the above is correct, there could be multiple issues happening at once.  But I would start with the IT/Networking team diving in and looking around for anything amiss. Has this been done?

[phlyx]

Been with IT and have been told what was done has no affect on us, they checked everything and said the server is solid.  Have run Network Speed Test and looks good so not wanting to take up the battle to point a finger at the server when I am being told it's fine.  The folders were named the names of our suppliers with sub-folders named for their product lines and products.  Really don't think a virus or malware would do that. 

The loading problem did NOT persist when files were copied to local, same file opened in 3-1/2 minutes.  Took 4-1/2 minutes to open the top level yesterday, took 21 minutes to open it today.  But the same model that was P&G'ed to a single path sub-folder on the server in the same folders as the other model just opened in 3:45.  Still on the server and even in the same folder.  We weren't running that smooth before the server work and still have things after the full reinstall like I cannot run iProWiz 7 or I get a NET Framework error.  iPropWiz 6 works fine. 

Lots of issues and when I first sat in front of AutoCAD 2.1 the #1 goal of CAD was transparency.  We wanted engineers to think about their design, not the tool their using.  The tool should be transparent.  These days we spend as much time messing with the "tool" as we do the design we're working on, some of us even more.  I long for the days of tool transparency, occasionally have them, but they're rare.

[craig_embry]

When you changed the Unique file setting under project options, did you restart IV after the settings change?

If the problem exists only on the server, that tells me IV is searching for folders/files.

Change the setting, restart IV. Open Network monitor on screen two, open IV assembly on screen one.  Watch the result.  If you have a lot of activity, then IV is searching for files and this is no doubt the problem. 

I am sure its not the connection, as you stated you have good latency.   However IV when searching is slow as I have witnessed before when I had a similar problem.

Also, go and check your windows update, force it to check and make sure there are no updates pending.  What we have seen  here is IV and other things start acting funny because I believe windows preloads installations.   Typically, it is minor things like the number pad stops working on the keyboard, but I have had IV glitch on me as well.  Not saying this is the case here, but its worth looking at.

*If you are implying that bloated GUI's should stop getting bloated, well, I think we both know that will not happen.  The road to current GUI land has been long and always headed in this direction.  Expect to lose control of advanced settings and options to gain more one for all, press this easy button to fix. (or more like, a window that says to call support- or the window that IV has crashed and to please send a report :-)).  I do agree the tool should be transparent, I think the problem may be that the tool keeps changing with constant updates (or as software publishers like to push now- subscriptions).

[phlyx]

We cannot check for Windows updates, that's all in the hands of IT.  I think this conversation thread was a wake up call.  As I dig deeper we had the massive load of unused folders that I removed.  Then I found a load of numbers parts and assemblies that were copy at some time into a sub-folder in the same project, many duplicates of what was on the server, removed them and resolved links to the correct files.  Took a lot of "clutter" out of the paths Inventor searches and really seems to of cleaned up the loading.  

Not implying that the software should have less capabilities but would be nice to turn off the things we don't use.  Hope they never get rid of the "classic" menu option as I think the Marking Menu is terrible.  I think simplifying the user interface would be a tremendous help.  And everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) we do on our engineering drawings is upper case, totally ridiculous that MM is not understood to be millimeters and IN understood to be INCH.  That alone is a MASSIVE source of frustration and the arguments against it are as lame as anything.  Things like that would really show consideration for work flow. 

[Frederick_Law]

So you're openning files on network.

For the "Using Unique File Name" option to work, you need to open the assembly and save it.

Of course it'll break all other projects.

P&G may not be loading file on local.  It might still looking for files on server.

Network speed got nothing to do with how fast files open.  You're not downloading a single 2GB file.

You're openning 1000 files and create 1000 lock files on the network drive at the same time.

With a traffic jam on the network, each failed request will wait 30 sec to retry.

Have IT monitor what happening while you open the files.

You could get faster when you're working late and nobody else is using the network.

Try to get everyone to open an assembly at the same time.

[phlyx]

Accidentally posted this in the old thread:

Just so everyone knows we're not using Vault. We open files directly off the network server drive and we save back to it. We do not copy files local. We have done process monitoring before but other than saying, yup, it's seeing a lot of network traffic, not sure what else we'd say and not sure how to flag if it's too high or not.

And I had cleaned up all the paths in the project that I have been dealing with and the assembly opened in 3-1/2 minutes. I just set Unique Files Names = NO, restarted Inventor and opened the same file and it opened in 4:15, 45 seconds slower than Unique File Names = YES.

[mluterman]

We have 5 engineers here on a shared network drive (using it as a file server) in a non-Vault environment. The biggest "fix" I discovered was to use an "Included file" called out by an .ipj above it, resulting in a kind of "nested search"; I stumbled across this and it significantly sped up the search. Also, what still kills us is if there is a filename mismatch; then it search the entire drive (since our project file will start the search in the root folder for everything else).