Community
Inventor Forum
Welcome to Autodesk’s Inventor Forums. Share your knowledge, ask questions, and explore popular Inventor topics.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Sweep Cut a solid

49 REPLIES 49
SOLVED
Reply
Message 1 of 50
Anonymous
9418 Views, 49 Replies

Sweep Cut a solid

Anonymous
Not applicable

Hello all, I hope you can help.

 

I would like to create a feed scroll.  I know this can be done in solidworks (see link). But can this be done in inventor.

 

Scroll Feed 

The Image is similar to what I'm after,  but my thoughts are that this is not possible in Inventor... yet.  Am I Right?

 

The Solid in the image wascreated as a rectangular pattern (1200-off) of a cylinder along a helix path that is then cut from the work piece. In essence this is exactly what im after but as you can see there are far too many surfaces and the resultant cut is jagged especially when viewed with the shaded with edges style not to mention its size the file size 11+ Mb and hence i cant attach it to this post.

 

Is my method the only method available out there at the moment or am I missing a trick?

 

Solid Works Sweep Cut

0 Likes

Sweep Cut a solid

Hello all, I hope you can help.

 

I would like to create a feed scroll.  I know this can be done in solidworks (see link). But can this be done in inventor.

 

Scroll Feed 

The Image is similar to what I'm after,  but my thoughts are that this is not possible in Inventor... yet.  Am I Right?

 

The Solid in the image wascreated as a rectangular pattern (1200-off) of a cylinder along a helix path that is then cut from the work piece. In essence this is exactly what im after but as you can see there are far too many surfaces and the resultant cut is jagged especially when viewed with the shaded with edges style not to mention its size the file size 11+ Mb and hence i cant attach it to this post.

 

Is my method the only method available out there at the moment or am I missing a trick?

 

Solid Works Sweep Cut

49 REPLIES 49
Message 21 of 50
JDMather
in reply to: kakaboo

JDMather
Consultant
Consultant

All you need for the CNC is the path - not the geometry.  (in fact, the geometry confuses the issue as far as creating CNC path)
Considering manufacturing tolerance and clerance between conveyed part - why need perfect (can't manufacture perfect parts anyhow).


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autodesk Inventor 2019 Certified Professional
Autodesk AutoCAD 2013 Certified Professional
Certified SolidWorks Professional


0 Likes

All you need for the CNC is the path - not the geometry.  (in fact, the geometry confuses the issue as far as creating CNC path)
Considering manufacturing tolerance and clerance between conveyed part - why need perfect (can't manufacture perfect parts anyhow).


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autodesk Inventor 2019 Certified Professional
Autodesk AutoCAD 2013 Certified Professional
Certified SolidWorks Professional


Message 22 of 50
whunter
in reply to: Anonymous

whunter
Advocate
Advocate
Do you model all your bolt threads? No. Is a sheet metal part a perfect representation of the real thing? No. It's called a digital prototype for a reason. What does it matter how you've accomplished the digital prototype, as long as it is an accurate representation of the real part. Plus, you know how you're going to machine the part anyhow, so weather your digital prototype is 100% correct or 99.917%, what difference does it make?
0 Likes

Do you model all your bolt threads? No. Is a sheet metal part a perfect representation of the real thing? No. It's called a digital prototype for a reason. What does it matter how you've accomplished the digital prototype, as long as it is an accurate representation of the real part. Plus, you know how you're going to machine the part anyhow, so weather your digital prototype is 100% correct or 99.917%, what difference does it make?
Message 23 of 50
JDMather
in reply to: kakaboo

JDMather
Consultant
Consultant

Apparently the solid sweep cut in SolidWorks is severly limited

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=312336

 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autodesk Inventor 2019 Certified Professional
Autodesk AutoCAD 2013 Certified Professional
Certified SolidWorks Professional


0 Likes

Apparently the solid sweep cut in SolidWorks is severly limited

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=312336

 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autodesk Inventor 2019 Certified Professional
Autodesk AutoCAD 2013 Certified Professional
Certified SolidWorks Professional


Message 24 of 50
SBix26
in reply to: kakaboo

SBix26
Mentor
Mentor

I beg to disagree, at least for the case of a fixed-pitch helix.  Sweeping a 3D solid will leave a helical cut with a perfectly consistent 2D profile.  The challenge for Inventor users is to work out what that 2D profile looks like.  But I agree, too, that perfection in the model is not necessary in the case of feed screws.  Nobody would dream of trying to produce one by NC directly from the model!


@kakaboo wrote:

I'm afraid sweeping of 2D profile - no matter how shaped and positioned in relation to 3D path curvature - will not produce results identical to sweeping 3D solid.

0 Likes

I beg to disagree, at least for the case of a fixed-pitch helix.  Sweeping a 3D solid will leave a helical cut with a perfectly consistent 2D profile.  The challenge for Inventor users is to work out what that 2D profile looks like.  But I agree, too, that perfection in the model is not necessary in the case of feed screws.  Nobody would dream of trying to produce one by NC directly from the model!


@kakaboo wrote:

I'm afraid sweeping of 2D profile - no matter how shaped and positioned in relation to 3D path curvature - will not produce results identical to sweeping 3D solid.

Message 25 of 50
cwhetten
in reply to: SBix26

cwhetten
Advisor
Advisor

This is definitely not a simple problem.  Here is one cross-section, cut on a plane parallel to the helical axis.

 

Scroller Cut.png

 

This shape was created with the patterned cylindrical cut feature mentioned above.  The shape appears to be approximated by a series of elliptical arcs, each with a slightly longer major axis (vertical in this image) and a constant minor axis (equal to the diameter of the small cylinder--the dashed circle in the image).  The center mark of each elliptical section is shown, and they appear to be laid out in a parabolic shape, or maybe elliptical, or even sinusoidal.

 

Not an easy shape to sketch in Inventor, anyway.

 

 

0 Likes

This is definitely not a simple problem.  Here is one cross-section, cut on a plane parallel to the helical axis.

 

Scroller Cut.png

 

This shape was created with the patterned cylindrical cut feature mentioned above.  The shape appears to be approximated by a series of elliptical arcs, each with a slightly longer major axis (vertical in this image) and a constant minor axis (equal to the diameter of the small cylinder--the dashed circle in the image).  The center mark of each elliptical section is shown, and they appear to be laid out in a parabolic shape, or maybe elliptical, or even sinusoidal.

 

Not an easy shape to sketch in Inventor, anyway.

 

 

Message 26 of 50
whunter
in reply to: cwhetten

whunter
Advocate
Advocate

Very nice!

 

I think you're on to something here: the locus (of the points) is probably sinusoidal (projection of the helix's path?). If you draw a circle at each locus, and construct a spline that's tangent to those circles' outer boundary, I think you'll have a very good approximation.

 

I'll try it and see what transpires.

 

In the mean time, here's an improved version of the IPT I posted originally. Now fully parametric (you can change the cutting depth, diameter, pitch, etc). See the parameters in the file.

0 Likes

Very nice!

 

I think you're on to something here: the locus (of the points) is probably sinusoidal (projection of the helix's path?). If you draw a circle at each locus, and construct a spline that's tangent to those circles' outer boundary, I think you'll have a very good approximation.

 

I'll try it and see what transpires.

 

In the mean time, here's an improved version of the IPT I posted originally. Now fully parametric (you can change the cutting depth, diameter, pitch, etc). See the parameters in the file.

Message 27 of 50
cwhetten
in reply to: whunter

cwhetten
Advisor
Advisor

The latest part you posted is quite interesting.  How did you come up with that approach?  The logical progression isn't quite clear to me, although the approximation is impressively good.

0 Likes

The latest part you posted is quite interesting.  How did you come up with that approach?  The logical progression isn't quite clear to me, although the approximation is impressively good.

Message 28 of 50
whunter
in reply to: cwhetten

whunter
Advocate
Advocate
Accepted solution

Thanks.

 

I figured you have to take the 3D path into account somehow, and the easiest is just a silhouette of that 3D path/volume.

 

There's a 3rd, more terse approach, see attached.

 

Sadly, I'm working on a 4th method...

Thanks.

 

I figured you have to take the 3D path into account somehow, and the easiest is just a silhouette of that 3D path/volume.

 

There's a 3rd, more terse approach, see attached.

 

Sadly, I'm working on a 4th method...

Message 29 of 50
whunter
in reply to: whunter

whunter
Advocate
Advocate

3rd method is the best I can do, the 4th method I had in mind doesn't give good results. Whom can I invoice for this Smiley Wink?

0 Likes

3rd method is the best I can do, the 4th method I had in mind doesn't give good results. Whom can I invoice for this Smiley Wink?

Message 30 of 50
kakaboo
in reply to: whunter

kakaboo
Contributor
Contributor

Dear whunter, let's talk about invoice later Smiley Very Happy. For now please make sure the attachment contains readable data - I can't see a thing!

cheers.

0 Likes

Dear whunter, let's talk about invoice later Smiley Very Happy. For now please make sure the attachment contains readable data - I can't see a thing!

cheers.

Message 31 of 50
whunter
in reply to: JDMather

whunter
Advocate
Advocate

Others in this thread could open it...

 

Did you roll down the feature tree? Also, it's in 2012 format.

0 Likes

Others in this thread could open it...

 

Did you roll down the feature tree? Also, it's in 2012 format.

Message 32 of 50
coreyparks
in reply to: kakaboo

coreyparks
Advisor
Advisor

I will try and reply to the correct thread this time, darn it.  If the 2D cutter profile is perpendicular to the helical cutter path will this give you the geometry you are looking for?  See attached.

Please mark this response "Accept as solution" if it answers your question.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Corey Parks
0 Likes

I will try and reply to the correct thread this time, darn it.  If the 2D cutter profile is perpendicular to the helical cutter path will this give you the geometry you are looking for?  See attached.

Please mark this response "Accept as solution" if it answers your question.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Corey Parks
Message 33 of 50
SBix26
in reply to: coreyparks

SBix26
Mentor
Mentor

Nope.  For transporting bottles, the bottle needs to stand upright, perpendicular to the screw axis.  Your screw forces the bottle to lean over at the helix angle.  The screw can be fabricated by translating a vertical end mill along the axis of the screw as the screw is turned at a constant rate (for a fixed-pitch screw).  The trick is to figure out how to generate the 2D profile that results, since we don't have the ability to sweep a 3D object (cylinder, in this case) along a path (coil, in this case).

0 Likes

Nope.  For transporting bottles, the bottle needs to stand upright, perpendicular to the screw axis.  Your screw forces the bottle to lean over at the helix angle.  The screw can be fabricated by translating a vertical end mill along the axis of the screw as the screw is turned at a constant rate (for a fixed-pitch screw).  The trick is to figure out how to generate the 2D profile that results, since we don't have the ability to sweep a 3D object (cylinder, in this case) along a path (coil, in this case).

Message 34 of 50
kakaboo
in reply to: whunter

kakaboo
Contributor
Contributor

That is correct. By now all our attempts here failed to produce the exact cut. Perhaps we must wait for Autodesk team to develope such modeling feature Smiley Happy

0 Likes

That is correct. By now all our attempts here failed to produce the exact cut. Perhaps we must wait for Autodesk team to develope such modeling feature Smiley Happy

Message 35 of 50
kakaboo
in reply to: whunter

kakaboo
Contributor
Contributor

Sorry whunter, the previous message should be sent to sbixler. BTW, your 3rd method doesn't produce required results, so no invoice, pls Smiley Happy

0 Likes

Sorry whunter, the previous message should be sent to sbixler. BTW, your 3rd method doesn't produce required results, so no invoice, pls Smiley Happy

Message 36 of 50
whunter
in reply to: kakaboo

whunter
Advocate
Advocate

If the model is used in a drawing, it will look like the real thing. If you know what you're doing, it will take 5 minutes to produce a drawing that'll tell the machine shop how to make the part, and obviously it will work. I've made this point before, but it seems you want to have the last say and like to nitpick, while missing my point about digital prototyping.

 

I won't bother to respond to you again, you can have the last say. I've made my point, twice in fact, hopefully it will sink in this time.

0 Likes

If the model is used in a drawing, it will look like the real thing. If you know what you're doing, it will take 5 minutes to produce a drawing that'll tell the machine shop how to make the part, and obviously it will work. I've made this point before, but it seems you want to have the last say and like to nitpick, while missing my point about digital prototyping.

 

I won't bother to respond to you again, you can have the last say. I've made my point, twice in fact, hopefully it will sink in this time.

Message 37 of 50
kakaboo
in reply to: whunter

kakaboo
Contributor
Contributor

Dear whunter, I had absolutely no intention of hurting anybody's feelings here. This is the issue of academic disscussion about Inventor's ability to perform very specific task, not the issue of manufacturing particular part. In this case - of course - the problem will be solved long time ago after 5 minute conversation with average skilled machinist.

 

Best regards,

Matthew Dobrski

0 Likes

Dear whunter, I had absolutely no intention of hurting anybody's feelings here. This is the issue of academic disscussion about Inventor's ability to perform very specific task, not the issue of manufacturing particular part. In this case - of course - the problem will be solved long time ago after 5 minute conversation with average skilled machinist.

 

Best regards,

Matthew Dobrski

Message 38 of 50
nmunro
in reply to: kakaboo

nmunro
Collaborator
Collaborator
Accepted solution

Another solution, this one develops the 2D shape to sweep along the helix. (IV 2012 format). As others have said it would be nice if solid sweeps were included. Solidworks tool is pretty limited and fairly confusing on its own, but at least they are trying.

 

The interference between the tool and shaft is about .00017 in^3, very evenly distributed, likely due to the surface approximation. If you have IV Pro, the simulation shown in the included video (mp4 format) is included.

 

Neil

        


https://c3mcad.com

Another solution, this one develops the 2D shape to sweep along the helix. (IV 2012 format). As others have said it would be nice if solid sweeps were included. Solidworks tool is pretty limited and fairly confusing on its own, but at least they are trying.

 

The interference between the tool and shaft is about .00017 in^3, very evenly distributed, likely due to the surface approximation. If you have IV Pro, the simulation shown in the included video (mp4 format) is included.

 

Neil

        


https://c3mcad.com

Message 39 of 50
kakaboo
in reply to: nmunro

kakaboo
Contributor
Contributor

Bravo! It seems you've made exactly what dnewman ordered Smiley Happy!

It is unclear for me, however, how did you get this 3D Sketch3 curvature. There's a work point set on Sketch 3 projection (how?), which is used for establishing Work Plane3, than you get this 3D Sketch3, later mirrored ... would you kindly guide me to this point?

0 Likes

Bravo! It seems you've made exactly what dnewman ordered Smiley Happy!

It is unclear for me, however, how did you get this 3D Sketch3 curvature. There's a work point set on Sketch 3 projection (how?), which is used for establishing Work Plane3, than you get this 3D Sketch3, later mirrored ... would you kindly guide me to this point?

Message 40 of 50
whunter
in reply to: nmunro

whunter
Advocate
Advocate

Neil, I think you've got it. I went through your feature tree and the logic makes sense, it's better than my method.

0 Likes

Neil, I think you've got it. I went through your feature tree and the logic makes sense, it's better than my method.

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Autodesk Design & Make Report