Struggling with constraints

KevinMacDonald
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Struggling with constraints

KevinMacDonald
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I am relatively new to Inventor. However I have managed to get pretty far with a complex assembly. I am finding my greatest frustration is with constraints. I have a complex part that is constrained to another part but is free to rotate about an axis. I am trying to constrain an assembly to that part. The assembly is a part that is used throughout the overall assembly, like a bolt for example. I find that when I seemingly constrain a sub assembly to the part that can rotate, the constraints between the rotating part seem to come "unglued", which causes me to start all over again. How is it that constraints suddenly become inactive? They are clearly there in the browser, but the part they are supposed to be constraining is suddenly floating free? 

 

Can someone direct me towards a tutorial that will impart a DEEP understading of constraints, rather than one about the basics? Clearly, knowing the basics is insufficient. 

Inventor 2013
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JDMather
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Attach the assembly here that exhibits this behavior.

or at least a screen shot of the browser.


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KevinMacDonald
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I no longer have my project in a state where constraints are apparently messed up. However, perhaps you can comment on my methods of doing things. I would not be surprised if I am not following best practice. 

 

I assume you really need the whole project to look at it. Click here to download the file. (It is too large to attach here).

 

VenusFlyTrap.iam is the overall assembly. I have been trying to insert multiple instances of the FrondAssembly.iam into it. While constraining them to the SeatBlackPlate component I noticed that SeatBackPlate was suddely free to float around unconstrained from the Spine and GearSidePlate components, even though the constraints were clearly still there.

 

I have generally found this assembly problematic. I am wondering if it has something to do with the compound rotation that is possible via the Swivel Plate and the GearSidePlate components.

 

Thanks for having a look.

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karthur1
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Kevin,

It looks like you created these parts in another software and then imported in the sketch to Inventor.  Nothing really wrong with doing that, other than you cant make precise adjustments to the parts later on.  The elements in your sketchs should be fully constained... or at least grounded.  That is just a good practice to learn. 

On the adaptivity, you should also turn it off after you are fininshed with it.  It looks like the reason that its on is because you have created workplanes and workpoints from other geometry. I dont really see the reason for all the workplanes, axis and points.

It looks like the FrondAssemblies will eventually be bolted to the SeatBackPlate, so why not put a hole in the plate.  It would make it really easy to constrain the FrondAssembly to the plate then.

 

Something that you could do here, is make the seatbackplate, gearMatchingSidePlate, GearMatchingSidePlate_Mir, Spine and FrondAssembly a subassembly and use that on the left and right side. If you still want all the parts to show in a parts list, change the BOM structure to "Phantom". That way you only have to get the FrondAssembly's constraint to one half.

 

For round parts with a hole that needs to be constrained to the hole, use the insert constraint rather than two mates.  The insert constraint is like a "two for one".

 

For the constraint on the gears, use a Motion constraint (Constraint Command, Motion tab).

 

Attached are the two assemblies that I created/edited.  I appended KA_ to any new constraint that I created.

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KevinMacDonald
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Thank you for the detailed reply!

 

The answer to most of your questions about my methods is that my knowledge is limited! This is my very first Inventor project. I am much more used to Autocad, and so I am easing myself out of that environment as I get more familiar with Inventor. The reason for all the axes, planes and points is that I have had trouble understanding when and where I can "select" the points I need to place the next feature. It often seems that when I am trying to position a hole, for example, the geometry I need is not available. I am learning to make many small sketches (hopefully that is the right approach?). That too is problematic in that when I "share" a sketch, even then it seems like I rarely wind up with selectable points from it available on another part and I have to redraw the same geometry on another face.

 

Adaptability is something I have not looked at at all. It is always on by default and I have never touched it. I will have to read up on it.

 

Regarding shafts, it seems to be impossible to place a shaft into another assembly. So, if I have an assembly of several parts, one of which should logically be a shaft, I cannot place that assembly complete with the shaft. I have to keep it as a top level object and place it multiple times. Is this true?

 

One more question regarding weldments if you don't mind. In the model I sent you the GearSidePlate, GearSidePlate_MIR, Spine, and SeatBackPlate are actually a weldment in reality. It would be great if I could detail them as one part on a drawing. It is unclear to me how to make them into a weldment. When I select them I was logically expecting the "Convert to Weldement" option to become available, but it remains grayed out. What is the trick here?

 

Thanks so much!

 

 

 

 

Inventor 2013
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JDMather
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@KevinMacDonald wrote:

1....when I am trying to position a hole, for example, the geometry I need is not available. ...

 

 

2.... I cannot place that assembly complete with the shaft. I have to keep it as a top level object and place it multiple times. Is this true?

 

3... When I select them I was logically expecting the "Convert to Weldement" option to become available, but it remains grayed out. What is the trick here?

 


1. While in sketch use Project Geometry to get points (or lines or arcs) from one sketch or existing geometry into current sketch.

2. No, that is not true.  Not sure I understand why you are having difficulty.

 

3. Sounds like this should logically be a sub-assembly.  Either create as sub-assembly (which you can convert to Weldment) or if already existing Ctrl or Shift select appropriate parts and right click Components>Demote to convert to sub-assembly.  Open that sub and you will be able to convert to Weldment (or select the Weldment template when demoting).

 

Except for maybe the Project Geometry problem - this doesn't really answer your question, but I recommend you read this document http://home.pct.edu/~jmather/skillsusa%20university.pdf


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KevinMacDonald
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That doc was a great read! I picked up a lot from it.

 

Regarding the shaft problem my latest project can be downloaded here. (No worries if you don't have time. You have helped me plenty at this point). Ideally I would like the BenchLockShaft to be part of the BenchLockAssembly. I would also like the BenchLockHandle to be part of that assembly. I've tried dragging things onto each other. I've tried promoting/demoting the shaft. Nothing seems to work. As you can see I have "placed" each of these parts a few times to get them into the drawing. But it seems to me that if I can set up the BenchLockAssembly properly with everything inside it I would only need to place that item.

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karthur1
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For moving the parts in/out of teh sub, just expand the browser for the sub and then drag the part into it.   Heres a short video.  That will work for the BenchLockHandle.... but not for the BenchlockShaft.iam.

 

The BenchlockShaft.iam was made using the Design Accelerator.  They only time I ever use the DA is if I need to quickly analyze the part for loads. Even then I make a seperate part (dummy) part and its usually not part of the assembly.

 

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JDMather
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Well, you did a really nice job with an awful lot of extra work.

 

You have a lot of Adaptive parts when you should have zero (the ones with red blue circular arrows in browser).

Look for information multi-body solids modeling (basically you model your parts (one of each) in one part file very similar to the way you modeled them in the assembly) and THEN push out the assembly.

 

Find information on curve-driven (Rectangular Pattern) Component Pattern Placement (there was a thread on this just the other day).  http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Autodesk-Inventor/part-spiral-array-around-axle/td-p/3793204

 

Again, you did a remarkably good job in a very hard way. 


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KevinMacDonald
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So for shafts it is generally better to simply create them from scratch as a normal part?

 

I think understanding when I did things the 'hard way' is central to my next stage of learning. Sketches and work planes seem like such a fundamental piece of this, but that is still fuzzy. Your document said "use the origin geometry to your advantage... Use it to anchor your work. Use it for symmetry. Use it for consistency.", plus there is your comment that I am creating unnecessary work planes, axes and points. All of that I am certain will tie together into a big AHA!! moment, but I'm not there yet. This discussion has certainly pushed my understanding a lot further. 

 

Thanks!

Inventor 2013
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JDMather
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Consultant

This is a longer (but older) edition of the same paper with more examples.

http://home.pct.edu/~jmather/AU2008/ML205-1P%20Mather.pdf


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