Punch dimensions

[Anonymous]

Hi all, is there a way to dimension a punch, in this case a louver, besides saying length width and height? Is there another correct way to call it out as if you are going to make the part?

[HermJan.Otterman]

are you talking about 2D drawing or 3D model?

do you have a screenshot of what you need/want?

[Anonymous]

Well i made the 3D part with the louver but they want me to dimension it with more detail and i'm not entirely sure how else i would dimension it.

[mcgyvr]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Well i made the 3D part with the louver but they want me to dimension it with more detail and i'm not entirely sure how else i would dimension it.

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Pretend you had to make or source that louver tool.. What dimensions would you need from that side of the fence?

Angles/radiuses,etc... Its a feature.. Fully dimension that feature so that one could reproduce that shape exactly.. 

[Anonymous]

Well when i look at the die all it has is what it looks like is a step with no radii. If so its very minimal. The rounds and radii are all stretched from forming when it gets punched out that's why i thought the simple length width and height would suffice.

[Curtis_Waguespack]

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@Anonymous wrote:

... but they want me to...

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Hi btsmithAGKLU,

Is there a similar louver punch on an existing drawing at your company, that they  have been using successfully for years? If so just do it that way. I've successfully detailed many different types of drawings about industry specific things that I was not that familiar with, by looking off the existing drawings.

This promotes consistency, and is a good way to learn as well. Just be sure to take the drawing you're going to use for reference and ask them  if it is done properly and contains everything they expect to see. You don't want to use a bad example to go off of.

Often times "they" are the folks on the shop that read the drawings to make the parts. They can be a great resource, just be sure to wear your safety glasses when you go talk to them.

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

[Anonymous]

They have no existing drawings because i am the first drafter they have. Everything they have done was from head and like sticky notes.

[JDMather]

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@Anonymous wrote:

They have no existing drawings because i am the first drafter they have. Everything they have done was from head and like sticky notes.

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All the more reason to go out to the shop floor and ask questions.

Be sure that they see your final decision on style - but don't let them talk you into doing something "wrong" because that is the way they have always done it - time to establish standards too.

It will be good to get all of this "tribal knowledge" properly documented.

[Anonymous]

Well all the standards started because the company is going UL certified and just going from what that company wants which they didn't clearly state.

[salariua]

I would create a drawing of this punch as company standard document and give it a unique punch# then call the punch ID on the sheet metal drawings when used.

[Anonymous]

They do everything as L X W X H. That was what i was told to use so thanks for all the help guys some great ideas though i may use in the future once i get to the tool designing they want me to do.

[mcgyvr]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Well when i look at the die all it has is what it looks like is a step with no radii. If so its very minimal. The rounds and radii are all stretched from forming when it gets punched out that's why i thought the simple length width and height would suffice.

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@Anonymous I'm confused.. Do you already have the louver tooling? Or is this a new louver tool that needs to be made..

Who is they? Ask what dimensions "they" need if you don't know.

Any tooling company that sells "off the shelf" tools will also send you a dimensioned drawing of the tooling so you know exactly what shape you are going to get..

Any louver tool I've seen always has multiple radii,etc.. as part of its shape..  With hard tooling like that there is very little uncontrolled stretching.. Uncontrolled is uncontrolled.. You never want that.. 

See here..

[Anonymous]

The tool and die maker here has made dies based off of numbers from everybody's heads and they work great but they had no engineer or drafter before me so everything this company has done has been like shot at the hip i guess you would say. When i look inside the dies when they are open in the machine they look like they have very small radii and they are just rectangular nothing like how your dies are.

[mcgyvr]

@Anonymous

So what I'm hearing is that you need to talk to whomever "they" are and ask what dimensions "they" need to "hack" up a die set..

A tool/die maker should be able to make the proper die given a fully dimensioned drawing of the "as formed" louver.. 

Not sure if "they" is just a "proper" tool/die maker now vs whomever cobbled up the first one and they need the "proper" dimensions this time to do the work so they don't have to "assume" and have your company complain that its not what you wanted..

[Anonymous]

Well they is as in the owners and and the tool and die maker but the people i need to send drawings to were for UL engineers.

[mcgyvr]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Well they is as in the owners and and the tool and die maker but the people i need to send drawings to were for UL engineers.

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Ok.. getting better.

I understand a bit better now..

Yes you need to include more dimensions and a cross section view showing the louvres..

I'm not sure which UL standard your product will apply to but I absolutely suggest you read it if you haven't already..

There are usually dimensions in there that "openings" must apply to..

But you don't state anything about the spacing or angles of the louvres in the drawing..

A cross section and a few more dimensions should be all thats needed..

The UL standard my products are applicable to is more concerned with the entrance foreign conductive objects into my products so they have specific requirements about the size, spacing and angles to attempt to mitigate the possibility of anything falling in and shorting out/causing fires,etc... All that is spelled out in the UL standard.

I'd expect yours is more focused on water egress,etc...