Moving Design Dept. from AutoCAD to Inventor

[Anonymous]

I have an interesting challenge... I work for a commercial millwork manufacturer and I have been tasked with switching our drafting department from AutoCAD to Inventor. I have encountered some issues and I was hoping someone out there has perhaps been able to do this successfully and would be willing to offer some tips on a smooth transition. My two main issues are:

1. Designs take longer: We do almost all custom work with not many repeat parts meaning we are always modeling.  Our CAM package has a plugin for Inventor that somewhat automates the CNC programming aspect of a job, but it still seems like a ton of time for one drawing to be in a single designers hands. 

2. Exporting Inventor drawings to AutoCAD is a less than perfect process: All of our journeymen on the shop floor have thin clients with TrueView that allow them to look at drawings and snap measurements. It works well with AutoCAD drawings, the lines are crisp and they can easily snap to corners or other small features for reference. Inventor drawings have been tough to get onto the floor, especially if asking the production staff to use Design Review. When exporting a .DWF for viewing in Design review I have had a hard time thinning the line weights of drawings down enough for the guys to accurately snap lines. No matter how thin I go in the Inventor Style Editor they still get muddy up close in Design Review. Additionally, there is no way to easily change part color in paper space in Inventor, so the guys always have questions about what materials certain parts are made of. The alternative is to export an Inventor drawing to AutoCAD which is also very time consuming and tedious. We have had issues with dimensions scaling and even dimensions appearing backwards. We have to go through and change all the dims and line colors to meet our standard--the whole thing takes forever and in the end leaves you wondering if we are better off just sticking with the status quo.

Woodworkers are creatures of habit and this experience has solidified that fact. Inventor is technologically advanced to AutoCAD, I know this, but if I can't offer a better, faster way for not only the design department to get drawings on the floor, but also win the harts and minds of the production staff by providing a better way to visualize a finished product--then this is a  giant waste of time.

Does anyone out there have any advice to give? I would be very interested in hearing how others have gotten around the Design Review issues; successfully getting a good interactive, digital drawing onto the shop floor is critical path for me.

Thanks for the help!

[mcgyvr]

1) Without knowing specific details I would say that speed will come in time as they are more familiar with the software..

You really would need to get very specific about what takes time and someone would need to know your total design process in and out to offer real help for that IMO.. There may be a ton of tricks one could use to be more productive but it sounds like just lacking the experience may be the slow down so far..

2)Have you just tried to use Inventor DWG files (I'm assuming you are using idw files now).. Inventor DWG files should allow them to open them right in True View..

[jtylerbc]

1. As @mcgyvr mentioned, loss of speed is likely due to experience at this point.  It should probably be expected temporarily while your users get used to the new program and how things work.  It's also probably the case that you're working with a pretty fresh-out-of-the-box Inventor setup right now, without a lot of customization.  As you learn more about the program, you'll likely find tools for speeding up (or even completely automating) processes that previously took much longer in AutoCAD.  This forum can often help you do that, but you'll probably need more time using Inventor in a more basic way before you'll even start to think of what you would want to automate.
2. This may sound a bit harsh, but:  Why do your shop floor employees need to do so much measuring in the first place?  If there isn't enough information on the drawings to make the product, then measurement tools in the software isn't your biggest problem - your problem is the design staff doing a poor job of creating the drawings.  My company operates entirely without the ability for the shop to make measurements on our drawings, because the only reason they would need to is if the drawing isn't created properly in the first place.

One thing to keep in mind is that your current standards are based on the assumption that you're using AutoCAD.  Those standards may need to change in some areas because they no longer make sense with the new software.  A software change is also a good time to question whether the standards even made sense in the first place.  Relating to that, I'll tell a little story from a previous job.

I, too, was leading our transition to Inventor.  We were transitioning from Ideas, another parametric system, so it was less of a change in some ways than what you are dealing with, but it still required a lot of changes in the way we did things.  One area I was questioning involved line colors on drawings.  We had a very rigorous color code based on part types, that had to be meticulously applied manually to our assembly drawings in Ideas, to meet our standards.  This could sometimes take hours for a large assembly drawing.  Once we were done carefully applying the line colors, we then exported a black and white PDF, which is what the entire company outside of the CAD users actually looked at.

During our migration to Inventor, I began to question why in the world we spent all that time carefully color-coding to meet a very specific standard, then immediately strip all the colors in the PDF that was actually used in production.  I finally asked the right person and got the real story.  It turned out that many years before, they had a 2D CAD system called Anvil.  In Anvil, they had some sort of macro that reassigned layers based on object color.  The color code existed to support that macro, but had been carried over from Anvil into Ideas, and would have been carried over into Inventor if I hadn't dug into the reasoning behind it.  Many man-hours had been wasted over a long period of time, just to conform to a standard that hadn't made logical sense in about 15 years.

Moral of the Story:  Standards are good in principle, but sometimes specifics of the standard may exist for incredibly silly reasons.  It's good to question them and determine whether or not they still make sense.

[Anonymous]

First and foremost, get everyone professionally trained, the return on investment will be huge. Contact your reseller or find one nearest to you and see if they are offering the "Intro to Inventor" class. This class starts at the bare basics and covers everything Inventor can do. From there you can apply what you learned into the day to day processes and in due time, take the Advanced Parts and Assembly classes.

As mentioned, a good part of your time right now is due to lack of experience on Inventor, you don't know what you don't know.

Next, whatever you do, do NOT force Inventor or expect Inventor to work like Acad. It's not the same program. Sure, there are some things you can do like Acad in Inventor, but in my experience, it'll paint you into a corner in the long run. Hit that reset button on the back of your head and approach Inventor as it is, a different software, you'll be glad you did.

As also mentioned, it sounds like your drawings are lacking. The shop should not have to be taking so many dimensions. If you are using Design Review, have them measure the 3D model, not the lines on the drawings.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your response...

I have tried the Inventor DWG and again we still have the issue with muddy lines.

[Anonymous]

@jtylerbc I get what you are saying about the prints; they use trueview for a couple of reasons: 1) conventional paper prints can get dirty as they get passed through the production workflow. 2) we work on tight timelines a lot of time which requires drawings getting released to the shop promptly. It doesn't always happen, but sometimes there are dimensions that are missed. 3) the guys like the contrast of the line colors on the black background.

I know that some of the design process will get faster with experience, but I would really like to learn more about automating some of these mouse clicks. I will dig...

Thanks for your response.

[jtylerbc]

FYI, I'm not arguing with the idea of viewing them electronically - I wish we did it, actually.  You should see how nasty prints get in a steel fab shop.

I also don't have a problem with colors - the point of my "line color" story wasn't to criticize the idea of colors on a drawing.  It was that you should re-evaluate what your standards are and why you're doing them, rather than blindly replicating them in a new software.  For some things, there will be perfectly valid reasons to continue them.  For others, you may find that they don't apply anymore, or never made sense in the first place.

Regarding colors in particular - many of our weldment drawings actually use shaded views, where you can easily change the colors (because they obey the colors of the model).  That may be an option to consider.

If you do need it to be line views instead of shaded, you can manually change the colors of the lines on the drawing more efficiently by changing to the "Part" selection filter.  Then you won't be selecting individual lines, but all lines in that view for an entire part at once with a single click.

[Anonymous]

1. Designs take longer: We do almost all custom work with not many repeat parts meaning we are always modeling.  Our CAM package has a plugin for Inventor that somewhat automates the CNC programming aspect of a job, but it still seems like a ton of time for one drawing to be in a single designers hands. 

I'm in the industry of commercial millwork too! I've worked at both a company where I made the transition from Autocad to Inventor (at least on some product) and I'm guessing we were probably using the same CAM package as you. And also at another company that transitioned to Inventor before I started there. I will reaffirm that what most people have said is true, that most of the speed/time is due to is learning all the various time saving techniques. Also I would argue being in the same general industry that you can't reuse some things. There are plenty of components/sketch blocks/iFeatures/etc not to even mention iLogic options that are probably going to be able to get 80-90% of your common detailing repeated it's just a matter of learning that things are done pretty differently than in AutoCAD.

[PaulMunford]

Hi @Anonymous.

I drew joinery, millwork and cabinetary (interior fit out, shops, hotels, residential) for four years in AutoCAD before I started learning Inventor.

It took me three months to understand how Inventor worked. Six months to work confidentiality, and 12 months before I could work as fast in Inventor as I had with AutoCAD (To be fair, it probably took me 12 months to be expert with AutoCAD!).

In my experience, creating drawings with Inventor won't be quicker than AutoCAD. but with experience it should take about the same time.

The advantage is that the Inventor model contains all the information you need to generate drawings, cutting tickets and CNC programs. The time saved is in preparation for manufacture - not drawing.

If you aren't seeing the benefits, definitely call your local Autodesk reseller and ask for a review.

I also recommend that you check out 'Woodwork for Inventor', which is a plug-in specially designed for wood workers who use Inventor.

(I will point out here that I am based. I work for an Autodesk reseller here in the UK).

[PaulMunford]

Some more practical advice:

1. Inventor can create DWG files, which will open in AutoCAD (Including DWG Trueview).
2. If you must use Design review, check out this solutions for Lineweights:
   http://dwf.blogs.com/beyond_the_paper/2010/03/thick-lines-in-dwg.html
3. Try Adobe PDF instead - It has a measuring tool, and linweights can be turned on and off.
4. Check out A360 (Also known as Fusion Team) which has viwers for DWG, DWF and 3D Models, including mark-up, measuring tools and review.
5. You can identify materials by mapping hatch style to materials, Turing on colour in views, identify parts in the parts list, or my using iLogic
   http://modthemachine.typepad.com/my_weblog/2010/10/changing-drawing-curves-to-match-assembly-color.h...
   https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-customization/assign-layers-to-materials/td-p/2871324
   
   

Let me know if that helps?!

Paul

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! Your transition is not unique. A good percentage of Inventor users who have used Inventor 5 years or longer have gone through the same transition. Each company is different and each case is different. In most cases, the transition is smooth and the users are able to find the workflows and processes to either completely move to Inventor or use Inventor and AutoCAD side-by-side. Certainly, some users are still struggling to find the right way.

Regarding the two points you raise, I have a few comments.

1) Design takes longer: To certain degree it could be true. It depends on how you define "design cycle." If you are talking about prototyping with one-off design, in some cases, AutoCAD will be a lot faster. It is because there is no concept of parameters, constraints, features, updates, and assemblies. However, if the design is iterative or you deal with multiple sources of geometry, Inventor will save your life. Please note that Inventor workflows are not that unique. Most of its competitors operate fairly similarly. They all are feature-based parametric solid modeling CAD for mechanical design. AutoCAD is primary a 2D drafting tool, which is the only game in town. Inventor users and its competitor users still rely on AutoCAD for drafting workflows in some cases.

To reuse existing dwg file, you could leverage dwg import or dwg underlay workflows. You don't have to redraw the dwg geometry in Inventor.

2) Exporting Inventor drawing to AutoCAD is not perfect: Yes, this is also true in some cases. Inventor does a good job exporting dwg to AutoCAD. In some cases, the fidelity can be lost and the workflow is not associative. You will need to export the Inventor drawing to dwg every time there is a change in Inventor model or the drawing. Do you know actually AutoCAD can create associative drawing views like Inventor? The command is called VIEWBASE. It allows you to select Inventor part or assembly to create Inventor like assocative views. This is a good workflow if you have current drafting process built on AutoCAD. Inventor drawing workflows may not fully comply to the process. Another option is simply saving Inventor drawing as dwg (without exporting). You will be able to open Inventor dwg in AutoCAD to add more detail if need be.

Like I mentioned earlier, your transition is not unique. We are here to help you to smooth the transition. Please do not hesitate to ask any question. You are more than welcome!

Many thanks!

[mcgyvr]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Thanks for your response...

I have tried the Inventor DWG and again we still have the issue with muddy lines.

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@Anonymous

Care to explain more/show examples?

I can create an Inventor DWG file and open it in DWGTrueView and do not have a problem with "muddy lines" whatever that is...

The line work is very crisp even when zooming way in..

This circled line is .009" long and I've zoomed way in 

Its very crisp/clean..

[jtylerbc]

I am similarly confused.  I'm looking at 2016 at the moment, so maybe something has changed, but as far as I can tell you can't display lineweights in TrueView even if you want to. 

Perhaps @Anonymous is mixing up "Inventor DWG" and "DWF"?  I can definitely understand having issues with the chunky line display with DWF.