More RAM or new video card?

[stevec781]

My machine is really slow even though my models are quite small and a couple of times a day I get a message about windows switching to virtual memory.  Its as if Inventor doesnt release the RAM when I close files.

The machine is 64 bit with 8GB Ram and a Quadro FX 570 card.

Which would give the most benefit, more RAM or a better card?

[MariaManuela]

You should give priority to RAM then Graphics Card.

If 64-bit system you should consider at least 8GB (minimum). Adding more RAM to your system will provide better performance and capacity.

Minimum for large assemblies:
Win7 x64 (Ultimate, Enterprise or Professional)
Quad or Six core Intel Xeon processor
12 GB or more system RAM
DX 11 level graphics card with 2 GB or more video RAM
At least 1 TB of hard disk space
Autodesk certified graphics hardware: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/cert?siteID=123112&id=16391880

Recommended for large assemblies:
Win7 x64 (Ultimate, Enterprise or Professional)
Dual Six core processor (i.e. 12 cores total, hyperthreading not recommended because
Inventor does not take advantage (except Studio rendering))
24 GB or more system RAM
DirectX 11 level graphics card with 2 GB or more video RAM (CAD workstation-class
graphics card )
Two (or more) 1 TB hard disk drives, SATA, SAS, Ultra 160 and Ultra 320 SCSI, SSD, RAID 0
or 1, 7200 RPM or better

More info here: http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Inventor/enu/2012/Help/0073-Autodesk73/0460-Assembli460/Work_with_Large...

[mcgyvr]

That is a crappy video card though (only 256Mb onboard ram)..

8M of regular RAM should be enough if your models are really small like you say.

You can easily monitor ram usage.

I'd say video card first in this case

Get a decent Nvidia Geforce card with 512Mb "minimum" of onboard video ram.. I'd shoot for 1G

Of course you didn't mention anything about your processor or hard drive (if you are saving locally)

[Martin_Goodland]

Regarding the comment about Inventor not releasing RAM when the file is closed, in Application Options - File, do you have 'Quick File Open' at the bottom of the page selected ? If so inventor will cache the last assembly in memory.

Regards

Martin

[MariaManuela]

Use Memprobe.exe to obtain detailed information on how your system RAM is being used. This utility is located in C:\Program Files\Autodesk\Inventor <version>\Bin\. When working with Memprobe.exe, add the Inventor Working Set and the System Working Set then compare to the Hardware value.

There are many many possible things to do to improve performance..The document that i attach in my first post show many ways to optimize performance.

You should also enable Performance option in Hardware application options.

[stevec781]

Thanks for the replys.

Performance option was checked but so was quick file open so I unchecked it to see what happens.

When I say the model is small I mean 326 parts, but lots of deriving, lots of frames.  I often wait for around 1 min just waiting for the mouse to come back to life.  Sometimes just zooming in will freeze it for a while. 

I use Kasperksy with inv in the trusted set, and have nothing else open, not even email.  I check it every couple of hours and shut it down.  Stand alone station so no vault, no network.  So something is way off.

Chip is Intel Duo Core E8400 3.0GHz.  Not sure about hard disk specs but it was a good one at the time.  OS is XP64 SP2.

Inv is installed in C partition and all files are on R partition.

The card was a result of this machine originally being for solid works.  Back then I was told that RAM was less important for OpenGl.  Solidworks went well on this machine and the graphics were nice.  But in Inventor I cant even get a shadowed display so I guess Ram is more is important for DirectX.  The card supports both but I cant find a setting so I assume that inventor sets the card mode??

Unfortunaley I have 4 x2GB ram so I would have to buy the whole 16GB to upgrade so I might start with a new card.  Thinking if it is card then I can spend some more and go for a GTX 590 if my board will take it.

[MariaManuela]

---

@stevec781 wrote:

When I say the model is small I mean 326 parts, but lots of deriving, lots of frames.  I often wait for around 1 min just waiting for the mouse to come back to life.  Sometimes just zooming in will freeze it for a while. 

---

The modeling methodology is also very important.

I do not know if you are already using......but follow some tips:

You use sub-assemblies? Must use (this way you will have to give fewer constraints)

You create assembly patterns in the first assembly level? Should NOT use

You use Level Of  Details? Must use

You use Substitutions? Must Use

You use Adaptativity? Must disable

etc...

[stevec781]

---

@MariaManuela wrote:

---

The modeling methodology is also very important.

---

For thousands of parts absolutely but for a few hundred?  I shouldnt think such small models would have any restrictions, but

Sub assemblies - yes

Patterns - in part features yes, assembly components NA.

LOD - no.  Not practical

Representations - yes

Substitutions - no not practical

Adaptivity - rarely but sometimes

Generally I use skeletal technicques based on common origin so very few mates, but most parts have master parts derived into them as composites.

To add a simple coincident constraint takes about 5 seconds of hard disk scratching before anything happens.

I have just won a much larger project and am concerned that Inv wont be the right tool for the job but need to make sure its not my hardware first.

[MariaManuela]

We have a some customers working with big and complex assemblies, the last one where i've been working works with more then 40.000 componentes. Who? Sure with good hardware but more with large assemblys tecniques.

So in your case has to work.

Make sure you have your sistem updated. All recent drivers, service packs....etc

I read somewhere that this anti-virus updates every day. Does NOTaffect the performance??

 Install the latest drivers\firmware. (By Autodesk WikiHelp)

• Hard Disk Drive
• Hard Disk Controllers
• CD-ROM|DVD Player\CDR\RW drives
• Monitors
• Network Card
• Sound Card
• Keyboard
• Mouse
• 3D mouse (SpaceMouse, SpaceNavigator, SpacePilot, etc.)
• Any other peripheral device connected to the machine (e.g. Printer, Camera, Digitizer, etc.)

[stevec781]

I got memprobe running and task manager.  Its showing 5GB of ram available.  When I rotate the screen, CPU usage goes to 60%, ram doesnt move, when I rebuild, CPU usage goes to 80%, the page file seems to be being used and the ram barely moves.  Just moving the mouse around and highlighting takes cpu to 70%.

So it doesnt look like more ram will help if its not being maxed out now.  I dont understand why the page file is being used at all when there is ram available.

[MariaManuela]

You can adjust the virtual memory paging file but Autodesk recommends settings which allow Microsoft Windows to manage virtual memory, as needed.

[mcgyvr]

It really has NOTHING to do with the number of parts..Its all about part complexity.

I can model 1 single part that could cripple any computer.

So yes based on your processor/video card you probably have a real bottleneck there. Ram.. a little more would help but its not going to make as much difference as you would think.

[stevec781]

---

@mcgyvr wrote:

It really has NOTHING to do with the number of parts..Its all about part complexity.

---

That's my biggest fear, if the parts are too complex the its back to Autocad and Rhino for the bigger project.

[PACDrafting]

Why are subs not practical with your modeling technique? Just to let you know, weI learnt the hard way. We started modelling using the multi body technique. We were creating to many solids in this part file. It was causing the models to run extremely slow. When we finally worked this out, we decided to revise our technique. Now we only model what is directly impacted on parameter changes in this particular part file. Any items that are unique from the main body, we insert within a generated assembly. Also, mirroring within the assembly and patterning in the assembly as much as possible. Then it's possible to make elements independent if items mods are required. This is all for part modelling. In regards to assembly level. Subs are used as much as possible. This is due to the fact that if the sub is to large, then it just takes to long to update the sub. This is compared to naming the subs in order, then linking the LOD's with the assembly tool functionality. I see you mentioned "most parts have master parts derived into them as composites". Can you fill me in here? Cheers Paul.

[stevec781]

I understand the concept of subs and LOD's, ie if you have a pump assembly, then make a sub of the casing and use that to design the pump base.

I design aluminium boats.  Every part has to be flattened for cutting, so every part has to be unique but is quite simple.  But most parts are in some way related to two or three others.  eg most parts need to intersect the hull so the hull surfaces are used as ref geom a lot.  Take for example an assembly of a cabin.  It has a 5 parts, front, back, 2 sides and a roof.  It cant be simplified any more than that.  The dash has to reference the deck and the cabin side.  A seat assembly will have a base, a lid and a seat.  Again cant make that any simpler.  But it has to reference the dash and the deck.  There is very little that can be modelled stand alone.  About the only thing I can sub is to take the internal structure out of the fuel tank.

Because of all the inter relationships I have to choose between associatibe with mates or common origin skeletal.  I would say about 95% skeletal, 5% associative.

What would be nice would be to be able to tag a part as being finished so that there are no more rebuilds or LOD at part level so that fillets etc could be excluded from the assembly.  (Solidworks has just included a freeze part feature to prevent unnecessary rebuilds).  Take for example the hull plating.  Its just an offset of the hull surface.  But it always rebuilds.  I would like to be able to set it to never rebuild.

The boat I am doing now is only 15ft long.  My next project is 120ft, hence my concerns.  Seriously considering a return to Rhino and Autocad for that one.

I'm sure there is something wrong with my machine graphics.  If I model a cube with 1 sketch and an extrude I cant even get a shadowed display.  It tells me not enough memory. 

[PACDrafting]

Spoiler

I understand the concept of subs and LOD's, ie if you have a pump assembly, then make a sub of the casing and use that to design the pump base.

I have a feeling your not fully understanding the best need for substitute LOD's.

As I've added a quote from you above. You don't need to make a sub of the casing to create the design of the pump base.

You can just use a simple LOD for that.

Subs are used for the benefit of loading large models and therefore creating arrangement drawings.

You are best to create as many sub assemblies as possible and create a sub for each of the sub assemblies. You can then use the assembly tool "Link LOD's" to change all LOD's for a certain level.

The trick is to not allow your assemblies to have to many occurrences in them. This is due to the fact that it can take too long to update the sub.

As you are probably aware, you can drag and drop parts up and down the browser in into a required assembly.

Your graphics issue is hard for me to comment on what the problem is here.

Feel free to comment. More then happy to keep talking on your subject.

Regards

[stevec781]

My brain was going faster than my  typing.  I understand what you are saying but must admit I havent fully explored all the large assembly methods because my boats are usually small.

What I dont get is why my models are so slow but my RAM is not maxed out.  If a part or assembly is complex then I would think that Inv would just use more ram.  But it doesnt seem to work like that.  My Page file is being accessed while ram sits doing nothing.

If the ram was being fully used then fine, start using large assembly work flows.  But I have 6GB sitting unused.  That makes no sense to me. 

So I invested in a 64 but system with extra ram and its not being used.  And I'm wondering if the graphics issue is something to do with XP64.  (I hate xp64 because of lack of drivers so not happy that I could have built a 32 bit system, with a better card and faster cpu for the same money and have all my printers work properly).  (Win 7 not an option due to lack of spaceball drivers). 

So I guess the answer to the thread is spend money on graphcis card and not RAM.

Going to install on an old xp32 machine and see what happens.

[SBix26]

I'm writing this from my home machine with Win7-64, where my old Spaceball 4000 FLX performs beautifully.  The old 64-bit driver still works, so don't let that hold you back.

>> (Win 7 not an option due to lack of spaceball drivers)