Inventor and UCS

[NachitoMax]

Hey

Why do the part and assembly files orient to the wrong UCS? Even after corrected, they will open reverted to the old orientation.....

The files seem to be set as YZX instead of XYZ. I know some will say you can change it by renaming the cube view but that doesn't fully resolve the issue.

It's important to get UCS right especially when sharing files. We found that our old templates were not UCS oriented properly from the template files and when we shared with contractors, our files were rotated 90 degrees out of UCS. So we fixed them but the rotation doesn't quote work and when we open them, they rotate back to the old view... Can it be fixed or is it another one of those inventor things?

[NachitoMax]

Hey

Why do the part and assembly files orient to the wrong UCS? Even after corrected, they will open reverted to the old orientation.....

The files seem to be set as YZX instead of XYZ. I know some will say you can change it by renaming the cube view but that doesn't fully resolve the issue.

It's important to get UCS right especially when sharing files. We found that our old templates were not UCS oriented properly from the template files and when we shared with contractors, our files were rotated 90 degrees out of UCS. So we fixed them but the rotation doesn't quote work and when we open them, they rotate back to the old view... Can it be fixed or is it another one of those inventor things?

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Natchito,

Here is a set of iam and ipt templates on Inventor 2020. Please show me a workflow that you can make it Y-up without redefining the ViewCube.

Chris,

I am sorry I did not try the exact steps you describe here. However, if I recall correctly, the default Base View direction is defined in the active drawing standard -> View Preferences -> Base View. There you can dictate which plane or view the model comes in by default. I don't have 2010 to test any more. I think the same setting should be there too.

Many thanks!

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Natchito,

Here is a set of iam and ipt templates on Inventor 2020. Please show me a workflow that you can make it Y-up without redefining the ViewCube.

Chris,

I am sorry I did not try the exact steps you describe here. However, if I recall correctly, the default Base View direction is defined in the active drawing standard -> View Preferences -> Base View. There you can dictate which plane or view the model comes in by default. I don't have 2010 to test any more. I think the same setting should be there too.

Many thanks!

[cadman777]

Thanx Johnson.

Mine has only 4 options:

XY Plane

YZ Plane

XZ Plane

From Model

So how can I use that to bring in a 3d model so it replaces the opposite hand model in the correct orientation?
I can't figure out how to do it.

[cadman777]

Thanx Johnson.

Mine has only 4 options:

XY Plane

YZ Plane

XZ Plane

From Model

So how can I use that to bring in a 3d model so it replaces the opposite hand model in the correct orientation?
I can't figure out how to do it.

[CCarreiras]

@NachitoMax 

Try these templates.

[CCarreiras]

@NachitoMax 

Try these templates.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Chris,

"From Model" is the option to look at the model in ViewCube Front. As long as the Front is defined consistently, this option should always bring in the model by looking at the front view.

Many thanks!

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Chris,

"From Model" is the option to look at the model in ViewCube Front. As long as the Front is defined consistently, this option should always bring in the model by looking at the front view.

Many thanks!

[W.Versin]

It is still bonkers, cos when you position everything good, start a sketch like you said, it still rotates wrong.

When you turn on coordinate system in sketch environment, you see it still had wrong orientation...

Here i set my adjusted my cube, planes, home position, front view... al you want. 

sketch still says y is up when below it says z is up 0.0

[W.Versin]

It is still bonkers, cos when you position everything good, start a sketch like you said, it still rotates wrong.

When you turn on coordinate system in sketch environment, you see it still had wrong orientation...

Here i set my adjusted my cube, planes, home position, front view... al you want. 

sketch still says y is up when below it says z is up 0.0

[NachitoMax]

Which is what i mean by Inventor still forcing Y up even if the files are reset to Z up. countless times ive opened a file and its oriented Y up with the model on its back File is Z up but inventor persists its built in Y up.

the attached screengrab shows what i mean. regardless of settings to stop rotation when starting a sketch, the file is setup with a Z up and viewcube to match. when the sketch is started, it rotates back to a Y up orientation.

I know that the rotation can be turned off but in the demo, its showing that inventor still assumes Y up.

it may not be an issue and we can all get around it but why? why does inventor default to Y up when every aspect of fabrication is Z up?

[NachitoMax]

Which is what i mean by Inventor still forcing Y up even if the files are reset to Z up. countless times ive opened a file and its oriented Y up with the model on its back File is Z up but inventor persists its built in Y up.

the attached screengrab shows what i mean. regardless of settings to stop rotation when starting a sketch, the file is setup with a Z up and viewcube to match. when the sketch is started, it rotates back to a Y up orientation.

I know that the rotation can be turned off but in the demo, its showing that inventor still assumes Y up.

it may not be an issue and we can all get around it but why? why does inventor default to Y up when every aspect of fabrication is Z up?

[cadman777]

Thanx Johnson.

Actually, I tried 'From Model', but couldn't get it to cooperate.

Are you telling me that the ViewCube>Front will determine how a model comes into Inventor?

Otherwise, I can't be the only one who wants to swap out models to re-user drawing views, can I?

It's so basic a need and desire, and such a time saver(!), that I can't imagine that anyone else wouldn't want it??

So what I want to know is, how can I make a model come into a copied drawing view (swap it w/the existing base model), if the new model is made on a plane that is at a right angle to the existing model's make-plane?

[cadman777]

Thanx Johnson.

Actually, I tried 'From Model', but couldn't get it to cooperate.

Are you telling me that the ViewCube>Front will determine how a model comes into Inventor?

Otherwise, I can't be the only one who wants to swap out models to re-user drawing views, can I?

It's so basic a need and desire, and such a time saver(!), that I can't imagine that anyone else wouldn't want it??

So what I want to know is, how can I make a model come into a copied drawing view (swap it w/the existing base model), if the new model is made on a plane that is at a right angle to the existing model's make-plane?

[cadman777]

Is it possible that the Y-up in the Sketch is merely COSMETIC and not realistic based on the WorldAxes?

In other words, no matter which plane you Define your Sketch on, when it opens for edit, it will always SAY 'Y-up'?

OK, now I get it.

But since I always FIRST pick the Plane the Sketch will be Defined on, I never noticed this until now!

[cadman777]

Is it possible that the Y-up in the Sketch is merely COSMETIC and not realistic based on the WorldAxes?

In other words, no matter which plane you Define your Sketch on, when it opens for edit, it will always SAY 'Y-up'?

OK, now I get it.

But since I always FIRST pick the Plane the Sketch will be Defined on, I never noticed this until now!

[anthonyzepeda1969]

Geez, all these replies just to end up at the same point as this thread started.

Inventor the only 3D software I have seen that orients the UCS with Y up and no plans to change that. 

And no I am not talking about the view cube. 

[anthonyzepeda1969]

Geez, all these replies just to end up at the same point as this thread started.

Inventor the only 3D software I have seen that orients the UCS with Y up and no plans to change that. 

And no I am not talking about the view cube. 

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Anthony,

That is not true. Our competitors have it Y-up also.

Hi Chris,

Yes, when the Model option is chosen, it should come in persistently. If it doesn't, we got a bug. Please share an example that the Front isn't the view direction after you replace the model source.

Many thanks!

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Anthony,

That is not true. Our competitors have it Y-up also.

Hi Chris,

Yes, when the Model option is chosen, it should come in persistently. If it doesn't, we got a bug. Please share an example that the Front isn't the view direction after you replace the model source.

Many thanks!

[NachitoMax]

Your own software is Z up

Autocad

Navisworks

Dynamo 

Revit

3d max

Etc etc

All cnc programs

All beamsaw software

Blender

Sketchup 

[NachitoMax]

Your own software is Z up

Autocad

Navisworks

Dynamo 

Revit

3d max

Etc etc

All cnc programs

All beamsaw software

Blender

Sketchup 

[anthonyzepeda1969]

SolidWorks and NX have Z axis up, as well as most machine center software, i.e. GibbsCam.

[anthonyzepeda1969]

SolidWorks and NX have Z axis up, as well as most machine center software, i.e. GibbsCam.

[cadman777]

Hi Johnson,

So I finally got time to try this.

I made a model w/two separate FG railing assemblies.

Then I made a drg showing the first railing.

Then copied that drg to a new name.

Then changed the filename of the first railing assembly (so the drg couldn't find it).

Then opened the 2nd drg and when it errored (can't find the first railing assembly) I picked the 2nd railing assembly.

When it opened, the drawing view was incorrect compared to the original view orientation.

Before I did any of this I made sure I changed the view orientation in the 2nd railing assembly to match the first one.

Since I don't have the more recently added command that allows you to switch the view's base model, I have to do it the long way like described above.

So, either I'm doing something wrong, or there's more to it than this, or the newer Inventor versions fixed this shortcoming.

Any more ideas?

[cadman777]

Hi Johnson,

So I finally got time to try this.

I made a model w/two separate FG railing assemblies.

Then I made a drg showing the first railing.

Then copied that drg to a new name.

Then changed the filename of the first railing assembly (so the drg couldn't find it).

Then opened the 2nd drg and when it errored (can't find the first railing assembly) I picked the 2nd railing assembly.

When it opened, the drawing view was incorrect compared to the original view orientation.

Before I did any of this I made sure I changed the view orientation in the 2nd railing assembly to match the first one.

Since I don't have the more recently added command that allows you to switch the view's base model, I have to do it the long way like described above.

So, either I'm doing something wrong, or there's more to it than this, or the newer Inventor versions fixed this shortcoming.

Any more ideas?

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Chris,

It could be a bug in 2010 or the style was not set up properly. If possible, please pack up the files, zip it, and send it to me directly johnson.shiue@autodesk.com. I would like to take a look.

Many thanks!

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Chris,

It could be a bug in 2010 or the style was not set up properly. If possible, please pack up the files, zip it, and send it to me directly johnson.shiue@autodesk.com. I would like to take a look.

Many thanks!

[cadman777]

Johnson,

It's not proprietary so I can post it in here (it's a mock-up example).

Find attached.

For H02.idw replace the base model with H02.iam (it's got H01 as the Base already).

What happens is, H02 comes in as the EndView instead of the SideView.

I would like to know what I can do to make it come in as the SideView correctly oriented.

Thanx!

UPDATE #1:

I did a test on this today to see if I could figure out what was preventing me from doing this and to see what may be the driving factors in swapping out models in drawing views. This is what I did:

1. Open a new assembly

2. Insert assembly 'B' into it

3. Reposition assembly 'B' so it is oriented the same as assembly 'A' with respect to the WorldAxes. 

4. Copy drawing of assembly 'A'

5. Change filename of assembly 'A' (I add a '-' at the end of the name before the extension)

6. Open the copied drawing

7. When it errors b/c it can't find assembly 'A', then pick assembly 'B'

8. Assembly 'B' comes in exactly as assembly 'A'

9. Re-attach all dimensions to assembly 'B' in the view.

Done!

There are problems with this method that have to do with iProperties and iLogic.

But the PartsList works fine b/c it's on PartsOnly.

Question:

Is there a way to change the WorldAxes in the assembly file using some kind of UCS so I don't have to do it using an extra assembly file for each assembly?

My goal is to re-use drawing views to save time and energy.

Thanx!

UPDATE #2:

I did another test to see if it worked.

This is nearly always a FrameGenerator model with an underlying sketch-part.

So I went into the assembly of one railing, then re-applied the Constraints of the underlying sketch-part so the sketch upon which the assembly is based is oriented like the assembly in the view I want to copy. When I substituted the original view base model with the new 'fixed' model, the view came in correctly. HOWEVER, changing every FG assembly base sketch is a LOT of work. AND the new assembly was at 90° to it's correct position in the top level assembly. In other words, it changed position in the top level assembly, which screwed up my 3d model so I had to change it back.

At this point I'm at a loss as to how to reuse existing dimensioned drawing views.

Isn't there a simple and easy way around this? 

[cadman777]

Johnson,

It's not proprietary so I can post it in here (it's a mock-up example).

Find attached.

For H02.idw replace the base model with H02.iam (it's got H01 as the Base already).

What happens is, H02 comes in as the EndView instead of the SideView.

I would like to know what I can do to make it come in as the SideView correctly oriented.

Thanx!

UPDATE #1:

I did a test on this today to see if I could figure out what was preventing me from doing this and to see what may be the driving factors in swapping out models in drawing views. This is what I did:

1. Open a new assembly

2. Insert assembly 'B' into it

3. Reposition assembly 'B' so it is oriented the same as assembly 'A' with respect to the WorldAxes. 

4. Copy drawing of assembly 'A'

5. Change filename of assembly 'A' (I add a '-' at the end of the name before the extension)

6. Open the copied drawing

7. When it errors b/c it can't find assembly 'A', then pick assembly 'B'

8. Assembly 'B' comes in exactly as assembly 'A'

9. Re-attach all dimensions to assembly 'B' in the view.

Done!

There are problems with this method that have to do with iProperties and iLogic.

But the PartsList works fine b/c it's on PartsOnly.

Question:

Is there a way to change the WorldAxes in the assembly file using some kind of UCS so I don't have to do it using an extra assembly file for each assembly?

My goal is to re-use drawing views to save time and energy.

Thanx!

UPDATE #2:

I did another test to see if it worked.

This is nearly always a FrameGenerator model with an underlying sketch-part.

So I went into the assembly of one railing, then re-applied the Constraints of the underlying sketch-part so the sketch upon which the assembly is based is oriented like the assembly in the view I want to copy. When I substituted the original view base model with the new 'fixed' model, the view came in correctly. HOWEVER, changing every FG assembly base sketch is a LOT of work. AND the new assembly was at 90° to it's correct position in the top level assembly. In other words, it changed position in the top level assembly, which screwed up my 3d model so I had to change it back.

At this point I'm at a loss as to how to reuse existing dimensioned drawing views.

Isn't there a simple and easy way around this? 

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Chris,

Many thanks for sharing the files! I can reproduce the behavior. I think this is a bug or a limitation in the Replace Model Reference workflow. When replacing the model, it seems that the view orientation is set to be the same in terms of XYZ, not the ViewCube. Though the view orientation preference has it set to the Front View, the actual view direction is still XZ (the Front in HR01).

To certain extent, it is understandable. It is because replacing the model source does not "recreate" the view. The view direction remains unchanged unfortunately.

Many thanks!

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Chris,

Many thanks for sharing the files! I can reproduce the behavior. I think this is a bug or a limitation in the Replace Model Reference workflow. When replacing the model, it seems that the view orientation is set to be the same in terms of XYZ, not the ViewCube. Though the view orientation preference has it set to the Front View, the actual view direction is still XZ (the Front in HR01).

To certain extent, it is understandable. It is because replacing the model source does not "recreate" the view. The view direction remains unchanged unfortunately.

Many thanks!

[cadman777]

Thanx for verifying this Johnson.

So we can be sure now that the view orientation for drawing views is based on the model's orientation with respect to the WorldAxes.

Has anyone on the DevTeam even considered this as an obstacle to improving Inventor?

Do you know if they have any intention on fixing it so 'automatic drawings' can be easier to code?

[cadman777]

Thanx for verifying this Johnson.

So we can be sure now that the view orientation for drawing views is based on the model's orientation with respect to the WorldAxes.

Has anyone on the DevTeam even considered this as an obstacle to improving Inventor?

Do you know if they have any intention on fixing it so 'automatic drawings' can be easier to code?