How to create a scaled a part of a projected sketch the same way I can create an offset copy of it?

[tomasz.sztejka]

Lets say I do have a projected piece of a sketch, like a yellow solid lines on below image:

Those lines are in fact driven by some parametric engine, projections and etc. and may change dynamically since this sketch is a part of a parametric part. Thous scale and offset is also solved through many projections and computations.

Now I need to create a scaled and moved "clone" of this piece of projected sketch geometry. I can do "offset" clone with "offset" tool which will nicely follow changes in primary shape. This is an excellent tool.

I can't however figure out how to do it with "scale" and/or "move". The good example of what I need is Inkscape and it's "linked clones".

Breaking projection links, manually drawing an identical shape and anything what would break an automatic update path is out of question.

Can anyone point me to an efficient path of doing it?

[cadman777]

 I need to create a scaled and moved "clone" of this piece of projected sketch geometry

Maybe you can try using a Block?

You can move a block.

And if the block's Sketch entities are parametrically driven, the block will change size and shape when you change the dimensions in the Parameters DB.

[JDMather]

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! Sketch Blocks can help you relocate sketch geometry more easily. But, scaling will require Derive. You will need to derive the sketch block with a scale factor.

Another approach to consider is to solidify the geometry. Then use Direct Edit -> Bodies -> Scale/Move to resize/relocate the body. Then project the edges to a sketch.

Many thanks!

[tomasz.sztejka]

The input geometry is projected so there is no direct parameters I can manipulate do separately drive the block.

[tomasz.sztejka]

Input geometry is projected. This projection link must be kept so output updates together with an input, exactly as it happens with offset tool.

[tomasz.sztejka]

Sorry this is not a valid solution. The input geometry is projected and must stay projected. If part I project it from changes, this projection must change. After that the "scaled clone" should also change, exactly as if the "offset" drawn lines would do. Blocks do break projection as far as I recall.

Also doing it in "solid" is not a best idea, because in that case I would need intermediate, adaptive parts. I do have now a single part in which I project a sketch which is somewhat computed to some another plane where I like it to be scaled and moved a bit.

I do imagine, that You propose to do something like:
1. Take my input sketch, make part of it.
2. Create an assembly and put this part there.
3. Create next part, add it to assembly, make it adaptive, project there my initial sketch (adaptively!)
4. Create derived part of that adaptive part, make it scaled.
5. Create final part as derived from source part.
6. Create an assembly, put in there final part and scaled part replicating the original constraints.
7. Make final part adaptive, project the sketch, finish the design.

Am I correct in an assumption that this chain is necessary to have "scaled clone" like tool which will follow the origin as "offset tool" does?

[cadman777]

Per Johnson's suggestion, try this (Derive/Surface/Move):

1. Create your equation driven sketch in Part1

2. Derive Part1 into Part2 (a new part) and scale it in the Derive db.

3. Open the sketch of Part1 in Part2 and offset the equation driven curve

4. Close the sketch and either make a patch (surface) or extrude the offset line a little

5. Use MoveBodies to relocate the surface

6. Make a new sketch on the moved surface and Project the permiter.

See attached parts:

1. Open both parts

2. Change Part1

3. Update Part2/Part3 and change Scale and/or position of this part as desired.

Everything updates like you want, right?

I gave you 2 examples: 1. Closed curve, and 2. Open curve

[SBix26]

Is this what you are doing now?  Using reference dimensions and a scale factor?

---

Sam B

Inventor Pro 2022.2.2 | Windows 10 Home 21H2

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! I could be wrong but I don't see a need to use adaptive in this case. If all components have a common origin, you can derive the skeletal part as many times in many places as you wish.

Sketch block isn't a solution if associative projection is required.

Many thanks!

[tomasz.sztejka]

Thanks for valuable work-arounds.

Sadly those which are preserving the adaptivity are rather cumbersome and those which are easy are not working with projected geometry. Honestly I was hoping for something: "Hey, silly boy, this function is there but hidden, you just need to click that and that." I was hoping I am too blind to see such an obvious functionality which, in my opinion just had to be somewhere.

I agree I can work around it with repeating the sketch using different parameters or using scaled solid, derived parts and etc, but it is all far, far way from the ease I have with "offset" tool.

Thanks again, case closed*), it seems there is no easy way.

The good thing in it is that I wasn't blind 😉

*)But NOT solved. Please not mark it as a solved case.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Tomasz,

Inventor is a distributed design tool. The geometry is mostly managed within each ipt file. When there is a need to reference geometry from a different part, it is like you need to go across a boundary (Derive or Adaptive). Depending on what you want to do, actually sometimes you can simply use iLogic to drive parameters at all levels.

If you like to control all aspects of your design within one document, I suggest you look into Fusion 360. It offers more flexible modeling approaches.

Many thanks!

[tomasz.sztejka]

>(...)When there is a need to reference geometry from a different part, it is like you need to go across a boundary(....)

And when it is need to a reference geometry from the same part? From what I could see from all responses it doesn't matter if I project it adaptively from an another part or from a product of complex operations on the same part. Still can't scale it and have to either re-do from hand the sketch piece to apply scaling (providing that what I projected even had a sketch) or go through the derive, derive, derive, producing tons of files which clutter the dependency tree.

Adding it to the fact, that Inventor file referencing system is preferring paths relative to project as a first over paths relative to referencing file, the "derive" path won't work without some if I have to create a "pattern" file which will I then copy and use multiple time in a single project.

Or even, as in this case I was hoping to do, the iPart.