Help with Tube and Pipe

[Anonymous]

Hi. 

I'm trying to teach myself to use Tube and Pipe and really struggling.  I can never seem to edit the pipe routes to do what I want.  Have managed to insert nodes on some routes but not others, and am now unable to delete a node I've added.

Thank you to cbenner for pointing me in the direction of some helpful info, but as far as I can see it's mainly specific tips that will be useful once you know the basics.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a tutorial for learning the basics and fundamentals of Tube and Pipe?  Alternatively, is anyone able to screenshare with me and help me over skype or teamviewer (happy to pay)?

Many thanks

[cbenner]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

Hi. 

I'm trying to teach myself to use Tube and Pipe and really struggling.  I can never seem to edit the pipe routes to do what I want.  Have managed to insert nodes on some routes but not others, and am now unable to delete a node I've added.

Thank you to cbenner for pointing me in the direction of some helpful info, but as far as I can see it's mainly specific tips that will be useful once you know the basics.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a tutorial for learning the basics and fundamentals of Tube and Pipe?  Alternatively, is anyone able to screenshare with me and help me over skype or teamviewer (happy to pay)?

Many thanks

---

Hello!

Have you had a look at my AU class from last year?

http://au.autodesk.com/au-online/classes-on-demand/class-catalog/2014/inventor/md5386#chapter=-1

In this I attempted to teach some of the basics for Tube & Pipe, but it's hard to know exactly what you're having trouble with.  There might also be videos on YouTube.  

The link below is to the Ascent website, they sell a lot of CAD training books, and are very easy to work with when teaching yourself.  My reseller uses these for all of their Inventor training, and I've used them here in the office.  They do have Tube & Pipe class books, for 2014 - 2016.  Take a look, it might be worth the money.

http://www.ascented.com/courseware-solutions/autodesk/courseware/autodesk-inventor.aspx

In this forum, we can help you with specific questions or problems, but it would be very hard to teach a complex module like T&P just in the forums.  If you need help on something specific you are trying, post the files here using Pack and Go (so you get all the parts and the assembly), and let us know what you're having trouble with.  one of us will usually take the time to work with you, but remember that we're usually at work when we're on here so it may be a while before we reply sometimes.

Also... if you want to tag a specific user to get their attention, use the "@" and their username as in: @cbenner.  This will alert the user that they've been mentioned in a comment so they know to go take a look.

[salariua]

Not being able to add points might be due to using Auto-Route which is a time killer.

When you depleted all resources here's a video on TP.

Will have to do a part two soon, with more advanced stuff. 

[Anonymous]

@cbenner - thanks a lot for the reply.  I had already gone through the presentation, but found it was probably aimed at people who already have a basic ability to use T&P.  Am I right in thinking the stuff about authoring isn't required if I'm happy to use the built-in standard pipe styles?

However, looking at the pdf, it looks like it contains some more basic stuff, so I'm going to go through it.

@salariua - many thanks also.  I'll watch the video.  I took the advice earlier about getting rid of the autoroutes, so that's not the issue in this case.

I've posted a screencast below.  I've got a pipe section made up of two sections.  I'm trying to delete the join as shown in the image, to leave a continuous single section of pipework rather than two joined sections.  I edited the route to delete the node, but the join remained in the pipework.  I edited it again, and was able to select the node, but no "delete" option appeared.  Any idea what I'm doing wrong?  I tried deleting the dimensions, as you can see, but that didn't work.

Many thanks again.

[cbenner]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

@cbenner - thanks a lot for the reply.  I had already gone through the presentation, but found it was probably aimed at people who already have a basic ability to use T&P.  Am I right in thinking the stuff about authoring isn't required if I'm happy to use the built-in standard pipe styles?

---

Yes, if you use the out of the box styles, and standard Content Center parts, you are correct.  But if you ever need to make anything new, such as valves or inline instruments, you will need an understanding of Authoring and Publishing, and working with Content Center.  Don't limit yourself or take shortcuts... my advice.

[salariua]

AHHAAA....

I think I know why that is. Check you TP style and verify the maximum segment lenght. I bet that's too low and you need to increase it. 

Example: If the maximum segment length was set to 1000mm and you create a 10 meter route (line) then Inventor wil place node for every meter.

Edit: corrected text.

[cbenner]

In addition to what Adrian said, you could also delete the segment after the point, and then increase the length of the preceeding segment to make up the length.

[Anonymous]

@cbenner Thank you.  Once I'm happy with the fundamentals of creating and editing routes using standard components, I will definitely go back and learn how to create parts.  My finished design will definitely require custom made fittings.

[Anonymous]

@salariua @cbenner Thanks again.  The maximum length is set to 3000 mm, and the whole length without the join is less than 1000 mm so I don't think that's the issue. 

Deleting the end section and extending the previous section worked, so thanks for that suggestion, but shouldn't I have also been able to do it by deleting the node?

Any idea how to set my dimensions to mm?  I've set the units to mm in the document settings (see attached screenshot) but the dimensions still come up as inches.  Sorry if that's covered in your tutorial/video - I'm going to go through them this evening.

I'm very grateful for you both taking the time to help a total stranger!

[cbenner]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

@salariua @cbenner Thanks again.  The maximum length is set to 3000 mm, and the whole length without the join is less than 1000 mm so I don't think that's the issue. 

Deleting the end section and extending the previous section worked, so thanks for that suggestion, but shouldn't I have also been able to do it by deleting the node?

Deleting the node should work, yes.  Without actually examining the assembly, I'm not sure why you cannot do that.

Any idea how to set my dimensions to mm?  I've set the units to mm in the document settings (see attached screenshot) but the dimensions still come up as inches.  Sorry if that's covered in your tutorial/video - I'm going to go through them this evening.

You set the units, but at what level?  Top level of your assembly?  Check the units at the sub-assembly levels.  Start at the Master Run (Tube & Pipe Runs.iam), then check also at the level of your individual Pipe Run.  I've never worked in anything but inches, so I honestly don't know if they need to be set at each level, but that's something to check.

I'm very grateful for you both taking the time to help a total stranger!

Hey, Tube & Pipers are family in here!  It's a tough module to learn and we help each other whenever we can.  @salariua and I, along with others, are trying to get some major improvements into the program so check out our posts in the idea station and give them Kudos if you like them.  Good luck!

[salariua]

It seems you have edited the units of the RUN and not of the ROUTE.

I have been investigating this a while back and didn’t have time to search deeply but since this is a recurring theme in the forum I have played with it and found the answer.

It is quite logic as you will see.

Any already created documents need to be manually change by editing that document and using the Tools / Document Settings / Units tab / Length drop-down field. What do I mean by documents? “Tube and Pipe Runs” assembly, any “Run”, any “Route” and it goes the same for hoses.

I think you will only edit the routes really and one thing to understand is that the dimensions will show in the new unit chosen, but when you edit that dimension you will have the original value you entered + original units. For example you created a route with a segment length of 1500mm and then you change the units to inches, then the dimension will report 59.055 but when you edit the dimension you will see 1500mm(mind the explicit units).

Any new files you create will get the units of the parent document. For example if your files were created in mm and you suddenly decide the new Runs or Routes to be inches then you need to first edit its parent document.

If you need to create all new Routes in inches then you first need to edit the parent Run and set it to inches.

If you need to create all new Runs in inches then you first need to change the “Tube and Pipe Runs” document to inches.

HOWEVER any generated pipe segments will have the units set as per CC (Content Center) family settings. Using ASME pipes will get you inch lengths of pipes while using DIN, ISO, etc. styles will generate metric lengths. No matter what units you have in the T&P assembly, Run or Route the pipes will use the CC family units.

BOM and drawing Pars List will get units from the pipe segments so if you have mixed styles (metric, imperial) then you will get mixed units.

To emphasize this you can add a “BASE UNIT” column on the parts list which should help spotting different units.

Using Material Lists with cumulated lengths is safe since you are probably merging the parts by stock number or part number and those groups by same “unit” type. Hope I am not confusing you here.

Back to the assembly environment, you can either open the documents or edit them in the current assembly. Some documents are tricky to open like Routes which can only be open either using the open command and browse for it on disk, or by selecting it in the browser or graphical window and then use “right click on graphical window” and choose “open”. It’s the only way to open a route as a separate document.

TIP: Here’s how to save documents if the main assembly is open. If the main assembly is open and you decide to open a run, route, separately then you need to do the changes in the open document but save the main assembly. Some files can only be saved in the context of the main assembly.

Good Luck.

[salariua]

Forgot to mention that Pars List units formatting can be changed.

If you need to unify the reported length you can change formatting for QTY column in the parts list and force one unit for all.

Right click the quantity column and choose Format Column. Tick the Apply Units Formatting box and on the Units drop-down select the common units to be used, then click OK in the Format Column window.

[Anonymous]

@salariua Thank you very much for taking the time to write all that.  Really useful.  I've also just watched your youtube video.  It's an hour long, but I spent about 3 hours watching it as I was working along on my own route while I watched it, to learn.  It was very helpful and exactly what I was looking for.  I now understand the basics much better.

I still am unable to delete any nodes.  I've posted a screencast below.  What I have realised is that I think when I first try to delete the node, and I get the option to delete, I'm actually deleting the constraint (yellow dot) rather than the node itself.  Is this right?  Then when the constraint (yellow dot) has been deleted, and I try to delete the node, I don't get the option. 

I've posted a pack and go of the same assembly as is shown in the screencast.  The link is http://we.tl/JCcyzx24WO 

For now, instead of deleting nodes, I'm using the following methods:

Either - deleting sections to create a gap, then choosing "route" to join the end of the section on one side of the gap to the section on the other side.  This creates an autoroute, which I then convert to a sketch straight away.

Or - deleting a section, then constraining the end point of the previous section to be coincident with the end point of the next section.

@cbenner Now I think I've got the basics of the routing (apart from the deleting nodes thing, which I think I can work around), I'm going to take your advice and learn about authoring parts and working with the content centre.  Most of my work will be in 4" Class 150 flanged stainless steel pipework which I can't see in the default styles so I think I'll need to find some to download.

Before that though I will go through your presentation handout.

Thank you both very much again for your help.

[salariua]

You are definitely deleting the constraint. I only show constraints when I need to remove some or add others and need visual confirmation of my actions.

Use F8/F9 to switch between show/hide constrains, or right click contextual menu. You also need to hide constraints to chek your sketch degree of freedom. If the sketch is light blue it means it's not fully constraint (depending on your color scheme) so you can drag the nodes to see what other constraints you need to add to make it fully constraint, dark blue (depending on your color scheme). If you have constraint visibility you will be draging the constraint icon instead of the node.

Can you send me that route? Not the whole lot just that one route that has the issue.?

I wouldn't download anything from the internet, not because I dont' trust it but because I think you have eveything you need in CC allready. All I do is copy a family and modify it to suit my project.

This is where I get my library stuff. Check my blog in a week or so, I am half way done writting a blog on how to author and publish dumb parts you get from the internet. Later in the day (haven't finished yet :(( ) there's a post on how to author empty parts as T&P fittings; it's all connected really, as you will see in the last post.

[Anonymous]

@salariua Thanks for offering to look at the route.  Sorry - how do I send just the route?

I will investigate CC more and look at your blog and @cbenner's pdf.  I think there may be some parts I need to try to download too though - Hytork actuators and other equipment - but if I can't get them I'm sure I could model them approximately myself, or as you say modify an existing CC valve.

Please kindly have a look at the attached screenshot.  I made the route highlighted in red, then populated it, then created the two blue routes.  Each blue route used a flange face from the red route as the starting point.  I realise that if I delete the tees, the flange faces will disappear, and the blue route end points will need to be re-constrained to something else.  Other than that though, is that an acceptable way to work?  I noticed in your tutorial video that you dimensioned a new route to an existing route sketch (rather than to a fitting of that route) but I couldn't find a way to do that in my case (my lack of knowledge I think - I'm sure it would have been possible).

I saw you work for Veolia Water - maybe you designed the pipework on some of the disc filters we bought?

Many thanks again for the help.

[salariua]

Use the attach button at the bottom of the compose message window. Add the route and I will look at it.

I might not find anything because I need the whole context, like the runs, T&P assmebly, style or custom CC libraries that you have.

Spoiler

[Anonymous]

Thanks a lot, I appreciate the offer.

I understand how to attach files to a post, but not sure how to save just the route as a standalone file.  I want to make sure I don't mess up any relationships between the route and run/assembly etc.#

Thanks again

[salariua]

Use iproperties to locate the file on disk and attach just that route for now.

If we can't find anything do a Save As / Pack and Go and grab the whole assembly (strip down the intellectual property if any, first). So main asm, T&P asm with the run, route giving you grief. 

[Anonymous]

Ah, ok, found it.

Thanks again

[salariua]

And....it's 2016. Will have to check it later from home.