Drawing hole note includes quantity on opposite side of part

[rbuechele9FDEA]

Hello all, and thank you in advance for your support.

When using the hole note, the quantity includes the number of like holes from the opposite side of the part.  It does this regardless of whether the holes were mirrored or if using a different sketch on the opposite side.  It does not include like holes on any adjacent or other sides of the part but does include them from the opposite side. 

I have noticed this for years and worked around it by toggling the radio button on a case-by-case basis.  Some of my engineers don't notice this and end up with what appear to be incorrect callouts.  

It seems like the quantity in the view should only include the number of holes in the view, and not include the quantity of the view on the opposite side.  Is this "normal" or am I missing something? 

My setup: 

In my drawing template I am using a Hole Note which includes <QTYNOTE>.  The Quantity Note includes <QTY>.  The QTY Variable Definition radio button is set to "Number of like holes in view (normal)". 

I have not seen anything more in the Styles Editor either. 

Additional note: 

It does not do this if the QTY Variable Definition radio button is set to "Number of holes in pattern or feature", but I prefer to have the QTY Variable Definition radio button is set to "Number of like holes in view (normal)" as this is a more accurate way count the number of holes in the "view".

[mluterman]

Inventor gathers all holes created with the same feature for that callout, as you discovered. If you are re-dimensioning the previously-called-out-hole in another view for clarity, it should be labeled as REFERENCE (or some other obvious note) to avoid confusion; this is a manual task. I don't think Inventor can help you here since this is a drafting technique.

[SBix26]

I suspect that this behavior is "as designed", and I really don't like it.  Holes from the opposite side are not in this view and should not be counted, even if hidden lines are turned on and they can be seen as hidden features.

It is not proper drafting practice to implicitly include opposite-side holes.  If their location can be deduced from the view being annotated, then an explicit quantity reference to "opposite side" must be added.  If not, then the quantity must be given on the view where the location is shown, or on the view normal to the holes.

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Sam B

Inventor Pro 2025.0.1 | Windows 11 Home 23H2

[rbuechele9FDEA]

@SBix26 

This is what I have always thought as well.  Thank you. 

I waited a while to see if anyone else had any thoughts on this.  I will contact Autodesk support. 

[andrewiv]

Have there been any updates on this?  I seem to recall that in previous versions it would not include the holes in a quantity note if the view was not showing hidden lines so the holes on the opposite side were not shown in the view.  I don't know if this changed or if I'm remembering it wrong, but as of 2020 I think this was the case and now in 2024 it includes the holes whether their shown or not.  In rare cases some of the holes from the other side would show through holes in the view and those would get counted, but I would expect that since they are being shown.

The work around I always had was to make the projected view a section view and only cut through half of the part so that there was no way the holes on the other side could be included in the quantity.  But in 2024 that is not working anymore.  It is always including the holes from the other side even if they cannot be in the view.

On the left side are normal projected views.  I would expect the quantity to read 6X since I can see 6 holes in the view.  On the right side are section views.  I would expect the quantity to read 4X.

@johnsonshiue can you confirm if this is as designed or if it is a bug that was introduced?

[rbuechele9FDEA]

Hello andrewiv, 

I submitted a support case with Autodesk and was told that this is the "as designed behavior".  In my personal opinion I don't think it is correct, but apparently this is how it is supposed to work.

[andrewiv]

I might be willing to let it go and accept that it is how it is, except that it worked differently a couple of versions ago.  This tells me that something changed to make it behave differently.  Whether that change was an accident or if it was intended remains to be seen, but I do not think that is is "correct" the way it works now especially when there is no way around it and the only option is to manually input the quantity.  That kind of defeats one of the purposes of the hole note.

[rbuechele9FDEA]

I agree.  I don't know when it quit working "correctly" but the last couple of years I have noticed some of my engineers' drawings have incorrect hole notes.  Now they do something I tell them to "never ever" do, which is, "never, ever manually override any dimension or quantity".  Like you said, it kind of defeats the purpose of the hole note. 

Perhaps additional support requests could bring more attention to this. 

[SBix26]

If this is truly "as designed" then the design is wrong and needs to be corrected!  If this behavior were only available as a non-default option, I would still not like it.  It does not allow the designer to clearly communicate the design to those who need to understand it.

If the holes on the opposite side are in line with and identical to those on the side being viewed, one can add a note to the hole callout stating that (and a really great hole annotation tool would offer the option to do this associatively!).  Otherwise, holes on the opposite side need to be annotated separately, with a separate view.

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Sam B

Inventor Pro 2025.1.1 | Windows 11 Home 23H2

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Folks,

I could be wrong but I remember this is the way it works. When Hole table command scans the circular geometry in the drawing, it does not filter out the hidden line edges, just as Center Mark. If possible I would like to see an example that used to work.

Many thanks!

[andrewiv]

I understand about including hidden lines in the hole quantities.  What I'm saying is that something changed because, as you see in my previous screenshot, it is including holes that are on the opposite face even when hidden lines are not shown.  It even includes them when a section is done that only shows half the depth of the part so they aren't even in the view.  It seems that the quantities are being calculated from holes in the part not holes in the view.

Unfortunately I don't have access to any drawings that would have previously worked.

[rbuechele9FDEA]

Hello, 

I am sorry but I don't have an old example of a drawing with it working correctly.  But regardless, we know how it should work.  The screenshot link in my first post in this thread is a very clear and simple example of it not working as we think it should. 

Any advice or solutions are greatly appreciated! 

[SBix26]

The farthest back I can go is Inventor 2017, and it behaves the same there.  The only way to prevent Inventor's hole qty from giving unreliable garbage is to always use "Number of holes in pattern or feature" and be sure you've: A. modeled all the like holes as one pattern or feature, or B. annotated each pattern or feature separately.

While I vehemently disagree with Autodesk's design in this case, the aforementioned workaround is not too onerous, I think.

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Sam B

Inventor Pro 2025.1.1 | Windows 11 Home 23H2