Good Morning to everyone! I've a problem with a guide who have to cross a random path. I've used the transitional constrant but it doesn't worked. Sorry for my bad english, i'll post below my system in a .zip file so it will be easier to understand what is the problem.
I'll post even a screen of my system
I’m sorry for this. I’m learning Inventor and I’m using it since 3 weeks about, ...
I’m sorry if this discussion has become a kind of “lesson” about the bases. (Post #31)
Don't worry. Here are a lot of Experts willing to help others.
tell us ALL things what you want or need. (Post #30)
In Post #33 you tell us what you want to achive, and I hoped that's all what you need ("I need to see that my system, a chassis with a trolly, is able to travel the path")
But now in Post #35 we read about a lot of additional, but not specified conditions ... 😞
Before reading this I created an animation (Dynamic Simulation) how to move a "trolly" along a path. (See attachment, not yet optimized).
The difference to the above linked example (train along path) here the wheel axles are fixed at the chassis (in the example above they can rotate about the vertical axis). If you are interested I can post the Inventor files too.
But I'm not sure if this (Dynamic Simulatin) will be the right way to archieve what you need. We should know what still happens while transporting (the work environment is very complex and full of obstacles - hmmm, whatever that means?)
But I'm with @JDMather: First you (we) need a stable modell which can be modified if necessary without of getting a chaotic assembly.
Then we should know what shall happen while the trolley moves along the path.
Then we can try to help you to find a solution.
cu
Jürgen Palme
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@Anonymous wrote:
I need to animate that guide because i have to understand if i can use that path, what i have to change or/and implement.
Above I have posted two videos where you can see how the result of an animation from a Dynamic Simulation can look like.( Instead of the locomotive you can imagine your trolley.) The result is close to the behavior of a real mechanism.
On the one hand I wanted to test if something like this works. Secondly, you should check if such an animation meets your expectations in principle. Is this something you expect and can you derive the desired knowledge from such an animation?
Unfortunately, I can't open your files at the moment. In two or three days I'll get my computer back from the repair (I hope). Then I can take a closer look at your problem. If you can wait that long ...
Jürgen Palme
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@Anonymous wrote:
don’t worry, I can wait until your pc is repaired,
The repair of my laptop takes longer than I thought. (I'm afraid +3 weeks (?) )
Maybe you can save your project in .stp format and upload it here (zip). Then I could open it with an older Inventor version and look for a solution.
Jürgen Palme
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Thanks for the reminder. Indeed, in the meantime I really forgot you, sorry sorry.
Is >>this<< what you're looking for?
Attached you find the Inventor 2021 model. I did not correct all your parts (see the hints of @JDMather above). I spent my time only to realize the wanted functionality.
Analyse the model and check if this helps you to get what you need.
Jürgen Palme
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@Anonymous wrote:
However, @j.palmeL29YX the file you've attached in the last message it's not correct, because it's not fixed and the dynamic simulation doesn't work
You have not answered the most important question - whether the video linked above (Post #49) shows the result you expected.
If not, then I don't need to spend more time in this direction.
If yes - in the here again attached GuidePath_1.zip you find the complete project what I did. If you need further explanations let me know. (Save all files into a new empty folder and open the "Guide_complete.iam").
Your new posted Dynamic_Simulation.zip I will analyze next, after you will have posted the missing "Guida_curva.ipt".
Jürgen Palme
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A first question to your "drs112maa55w1a20_dx.iam" (subassembly of "Dynamic_Simulation.iam").
Here (and at other places too) you created a lot of Work Planes/-axis/-points which are identical with the Origin Work elements. Do you need them, what are they useful for?
And please check all your Sketches if they are full constraint. If not, repair the sketches. (a first example I found after one minute: Schizzo1 in Carcassa.ipt)
Jürgen Palme
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@j.palmeL29YX That sketches aren't made by me. I've found it on an official Catalogue of wheel and i've downloaded it by them website the Cad files. I tried to repair the sketches to allow the wheel to rotate around the pin (all the group called "drs", and the wheel is the file "laufrad")
I've created to file with the same name but if you look well, the screws on both sketches are opposite. Look the image below to understand what i've done.
However yes, that is what i want to achieve with Dynamic simulation. I want to create a kinematic simulation of the 2 group of wheel and than i want to analyze the velocity, acceleration and dynamic forces to understand if what i want to do is replicable in reality or not.
Thank You very much however.
The correct files with dynamic simulation is below
@Anonymous wrote:
The correct files with dynamic simulation is below
The correct files?
No, no and no. You are far away from a correct model, sorry.
How often did we suggest you to create full defined sketches? And if we check/analyze your model - how many not full constrained will we find. And also o lot of interferences (collisions) between different parts.
I'm afraid you have to begin from scratch:
- open each of the needed parts, redefine (if necessary) the sketches, until all are full constrained and useful dimensioned. (As an example I attached an image of one of your sketches for a Hex Head Bolt with nominal diameter M10. No one needs the dimensions which you attached).
- remove in the files all what YOU don't need. Regardless where they are coming from.
- next you can reassemble the parts in a useful structure of subassemblies and parts.
- Have in mind if some components collide (use the Analyze Interference command) and avoid collisions. (See where your Puffer and Laufrad are placed, as example).
Then and really only then we can talk about a model analyze with the Dynamic Simulation.
cu
Jürgen Palme
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@Anonymous wrote:
... a dynamic simulation. It works finally.
Let me know if there are problems about my work.
After a short quick look at your model I think, your "mechanism" doesn't yet work as intended. (e.g. >>video<<).
This "fake" solution may be good enough if you only want to demonstrate how the mechanism looks while running working.
But if you "... want to create a kinematic simulation of the 2 group of wheel and than i want to analyze the velocity, acceleration and dynamic forces to understand if what i want to do is replicable in reality or not." [Post #53] you need a dynamic model which is closer to the reality.
Unfortunately today I'm busy the whole day. But tomorrow I can tell you some comments (I have a lot of them) to your model. (Maybe some others (e.g. @JDMather will jump in this thread and help you in the meantime).
Jürgen Palme
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@Anonymous wrote:
... I’m trying to create a real model, but I don’t know how at the moment.
At first I show you attached a result video (Dyn_Sim.mp4) how your mechanism may work. The simulation is close to the real mechanism. (Of course some improvements are still possible).
Also attached the Inventor files (DS-Result.zip), also including the Dynamic Simulation.
We know, that your trolley with fixed axes can not follow the path if we have such small radii as you want or need (see image "fixed axes.png"). We need vertical rotatable axes, which always are (at least nearly) perpendicular to the path.
A fake solution is is what we have done before. But this is constructively difficult to implement and also does not provide the desired information about velocity, acceleration and forces.
Your suggestion is to add some rollers (rulli.ipt) to force the axles into the desired position. I must confess that I did not believe that these rollers could apply enough force to move the axles as desired.
But nevertheless the attached DS follows this idea. It contains:
- a spatial joint to give the carcassa a free movement.
- two revolution joints between carcassa and the axles.
- revolution joints to enable the rotation of the wheels
- revolution joints to enable the rotation of the rollers.
- 3D contact joints between the wheels and the rail
- 3D contact joints between the rollers and the rail
- and of course a gravitation
To drive the mechanism I added to each wheel an imposed motion with a constant velocity (360°/sec). Of course now we will have a sliding between the wheels and the rail while the trolley follows a radius. But for a first try it doesn't matter We can find a better solution later (e. g. adding a forcing moment to the wheels. The best would probably be a differential gear like on a car, but that makes more effort).
For the moment I'd suggest you, try to analyze which joints I added in the Dynamic Simulation, which Properties they have and check the results in the output grapher after running the simulation. (my resulting .iaa can not be uploaded - about 500 MB). I am surprised, that the Force at the rollers is rather small. Of course, with other input values and refining the environmental conditions we will get other results. But at the moment I don't know more about your specific conditions.
Note: In the .mp4 a HalfSection View is activated to get a better look at the wheels an d the rollers.
Jürgen Palme
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I don't know if one or some of my suggestions above could help you to solve your problem.
In the meantime I created a new attempt. You can see I added some more rollers (rulli). So we have a very stable mechanism which also should work well in reality without the risk of jamming. To get it workable I changed some dimensions in some parts, but did not rename the files. If you want to test my last variant, copy (unpack) the files of the attached "DS-Result (2).zip" into a new empty folder, open the .iam, start the Dynamic Simulation and run the simulation. Try to discover what I did. In the output grapher you can see a lot of forces, positions, accelerations. If you have further questions let us know.
Jürgen Palme
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