Advice needed on licensing.

[ross.gilder]

Hi we received a very threatening phone call and email from autodesk yesterday claiming that one of the users in our office used an illegal serial number for AutoCAD 2017 (for a 6 day period). After doing a ton of run around (or as much as possible with everyone working from home due to COVID-19) we cant find any evidence of the supposed miss-use. After searching through the users installed programs we cant find a version of autocad linked to the illegal serial.

The user in question has a valid serial for a Multi-user version of the whole AEC suite (including AutoCAD) which AutoDesk are quite happy to agree with, and a solo license of AutoCAD LT.

After repeated emails and Calls, autodesk are insisting that these supposed 6 days have cost them a whopping £6600 and are requesting that we Immediately pay them. The only other option they are giving us is to do a full audit, at our expense, which is again difficult due to the whole Covid-19 thing. We have given them the option to audit the machine that they think has the software on, but that is supposedly not good enough.

As far as we are aware, we are not in the wrong and have never used any illegal versions of autodesk software. And as a company who, every year, pays near enough 20k to them, we are finding this "service" absolutely shockingly awful.

I was wondering if anyone else has had any experience with this and any suggestions on how we should proceed. 

I've put the only so called "evidence" that they are able to provide below (though i cropped out some of our info from the headers).

   

[DarrenP]

did you actually verify this was Autodesk & not a 3rd party?

[ross.gilder]

Well they have an autodesk email address (dont think i should post it) but Jordan Gamble is the one who contacted us.

[Tarek_K]

Hello @ross.gilder , 

thanks for posting here on the Community forums! 🙂 So let me try to check internally on that regards! Cannot give you a detailed timeline but I will definitely get back to the topic once I know more.

All I can say for now is that we (Autodesk) regularly engage with customers in regards of licensing so we can help to get most out and also resolving matters of all kind accordingly.

Again, let me get in touch internally! 🙂

[Tarek_K]

Hi @ross.gilder,

Following-Up on this topic here. So what I got now from internally is that a colleague will or has already reached out to you directly to check in on all the elements you describe here. 🙂 

Just in case I mention to keep an eye on your emails so the conversation doesn´t get lost! 

Hope moving forward all works out and can be clarified easily! 

[Anonymous]

Just wanted to add that you agreed to Autodesk's right to carry out the audit when you signed the Terms, so it's best to cooperate to avoid more problems:

https://www.autodesk.com/company/terms-of-use/en/general-terms#misc

21.5 Compliance

Autodesk has the right to verify (electronically or otherwise) Your installation of, access to, and use of any Offerings, including installation, access and use by Your Authorized Users. As part of any such verification, Autodesk or its authorized representative will have the right, on 15 days’ prior notice to You, to inspect Your records, systems, and facilities, including machine IDs, serial numbers and other related information. Additionally, within 15 days of the verification request, You will, if requested, provide copies of all records and other additional information related to Your (including Your Authorized Users’) installation of, access to, and use of the Offerings. If Autodesk determines that Your installation, access or use is not in conformity with these Terms (including any Additional Agreement, Special Terms or other applicable terms), You will promptly remedy the noncompliance, which may include purchasing valid subscriptions to bring Your usage into compliance, and pay the reasonable costs of the verification. Autodesk reserves the right to seek any other remedies available at law or in equity.

[ross.gilder]

Hi,@Tarek_K

Yes, we have been in touch with other members of the autodesk team, who are thankfully much more helpful than jordan was/has been. I want to reiterate, however that the amount of information provided to quote "proove" our non-compliance and the exceptionally Harsh tone that the initial conversation started with (by jordan) is in my (and my offices) opinion completely unacceptable. We will likely be posting a formal complaint about this when the matter is fully dealt with.

The stance as with most legal systems is "innocent until proven guilty" and not "guilty until proven innocent" as seems to be the case with autodesks system.

I would suggest maybe changing the procedure to start with a friendlier email like the one below:

"Dear XXX

As a valued autodesk customer, you may be aware that we undertake checks on our software to make sure that you the customer are not being put in an unfair situation where some people may be using our software in an unauthorised manor.

In light of this, we may have identified a potential breach with a machine running on your network. The information attached shows the extent of information that we have been able to identify. It would be helpful if you could assist us in identifying if there is a missuse and correcting it if needed.

Regards, Autodesk"

Obviously if you dont hear anything back for a period of time, or if your evidence shows that they are OBVIOUSLY using lots of copies of cracked versions of a piece of software that they dont hold any licences to then sure, go in all guns blazing.

But for one copy of a piece of software, that they have multiple licenses that would cover it for, with a license that would even cover that piece of software on that machine, that was only possibly used for 6 days, all guns blazing is not the right way. Is it?

[Tarek_K]

Hi @ross.gilder,

Glad that you are in touch already and now working on this together moving forward to a result! 

What I can do for you on that regards from a Community Management standpoint is that I am going to pass on your feedback here internally. 

But for now first and foremost I hope that the matter can be solved and dealt with fast. Let me know either here on the topic or if you want also through private message if I can assist further!

[waypointsolutions]

Can someone from Autodesk please contact me about the exact same situation we are facing as we pay autodesk for 12 LT licences and a Revit licence and we are being accused of something we didn't do and we are getting nowhere with regards to resolving it.  It is stressing us all out.  We pay £1000s a year to you and what we are being accused of literally doesn't make any sense.  We are paying for a licence, but on the same computer apparently a cracked licence is present.  How is someone using a cracked licence and a paid for licence on the same computer at the same time?????  We need to get this sorted ASAP please.

[ross.gilder]

@waypointsolutions 

The only thing I can suggest to you is to comply as best you can with any requests they have.

I think the “system” they have is basically BS. We let them look at the computer they said it was and they couldn’t find anything, then they said that was the wrong computer and wanted to look at a different one, and when that came up empty, they asked for an entire office audit, this was mid covid, and we had to get everyone to bring their computers/laptops into the office so that their software could search through each one.

It found nothing.

hours of man hours were wasted on this, (bringing machines in, meetings, management discussions, checking machines etc) which add up to a lot of unprofitable time, And what did we get in recourse? Nothing, Barely even a “sorry”.

Our Managing Director wrote a letter of complaint, I don’t think anything came of it, but I still suggest you do the same

Just try and keep level headed and fulfil their requests as best you can. If you haven’t done anything wrong, they will (eventually) agree with you!

[waypointsolutions]

Thanks for getting back to me so fast.  Well if that's what it takes to clear this up we will have to do it.  Its the way that its so final and with no options, just boom straight into you owe £10000.  I have asked them to let us do that, so will see what they say to it.

I bet you didnt even get a sorry, we are over the barrel with them for what software we need, but we bite the bullet, buy direct and just get on with it.  To get these accusations is frankly appalling.  

I am glad to hear that eventually you got cleared and I look forward to the same happening with us.  

Genuinely thank you so much for replying to the post.  Their support could take a leaf out of this book with regards to customer service.  I will try to maintain a level head as well 🙂

[pendean]

@waypointsolutions Their stance is usually "guilty until proven innocent" sadly, just a sign of the times when it comes to software piracy these days.

It makes no sense from your end of course, it never does for those of us that try hard to be honest all the time. But these investigations are triggered by some sort of what-they-consider a credible complaint from a partner of your firm or an ex-employee, or dare I say it even if it is remote, a wayward employee, or their secret tracking of your PCs and licenses log-ins? They never let you see their evidence unfortunately.

Hang in there, cross those Ts and dot those Is, this will pass: but be aware a vicious audit like you are experiencing will lead to them doing it again every calendar year for a while too.

You got this.

[DarrenP]

like what was said you just get the info they requested & if they don’t find anything then they move on to the next account

they don’t ever say what triggered the audit it could be anything

if they find anything then you will hear from them & what  the next steps are

[waypointsolutions]

Thanks for the information again gonna get them to do whatever they want to see that we are compliant and hopefully that's the end of it!

[bhwong]

I have received similar threatening call for an audit and I question them if they will be paying or at least compensating us for the time spend to do what they requested. If the vendor think that our time is worth nothing, we might as well cancel our subscription, since there are many alternative CAD software out there that are not so disrespect of their customers.

[mdavis22569]

@bhwong 

Cancel  if you have so many choices... it's not a supper invasion running of the program.  Nothing to hide then take the few minutes to do it.   Then in a year you'll be back

[mdavis22569]

@bhwong 

Cancel  if you have so many choices... it's not a supper invasion running of the program.  Nothing to hide then take the few minutes to do it.   Then in a year you'll be back

[pablo]

I'm having the same issue. Just wrote a new post.. 

[james1hunter12]

You’ve raised a great point about licensing—it can definitely get tricky depending on the field and requirements. To make more informed decisions, it’s often helpful to review related legal documentation and case details through public court records as they provide valuable insights into how similar situations have been handled. This extra context can guide you in aligning your licensing steps with the proper legal framework.

[mdavis22569]

@james1hunter12 

The good, now is this isn't as common anymore. They have the device limited in place. If more than one is using it at the same time, and on a different PC - they stop. You have to pause one. 

This started April of this year. 

https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Device-limit-reach...

Tells you what PC etc.  Each license it checked on the start up.