LandXML Surface Problem & Frustration

[Cadguru42]

I was having trouble with a LandXML surface in a project not displaying the full surface in the master view, but fine in a proposal. I decided to start from scratch. I deleted my project and created a new one. The first thing I did was set the coordinates to the same as my project and then import the LandXML surface. It was still missing over half of it. In Civil 3D 2016, I created a new drawing and imported the LandXML surface to make sure it's correct and it works fine in C3D. Back in Infraworks, I remove the surface and try again. Same thing. I completely closed InfraWorks and C3D, then opened InfraWorks again. I reimported the LandXML again and the same thing happened. 

At this point, I open C3D, take my surface drawing, and export an IMX file. I try importing the IMX into InfraWorks and in Infraworks half of the surface is missing. Thinking it could possibly be something related to extents, even though I don't have any set, I import a C3D with some alignments & profiles and they come in fine. It's just the surface won't. 

Next, I created a new DWG in C3D, imported the LandXML, then exported again to LandXML to create a new LandXML file for import. This one doesn't even show up at all in Infraworks. There is nothing in the model at all. I double checked it in C3D and it's there in C3D, but not in InfraWorks. It seems to process it, but then nothing displays no matter how many times I refresh it.

My last resort, which worked, was to take the C3D DWG that has nothing but the imported LandXML surface and upload that into InfraWorks. Only then did the surface show up correctly. I spent a few hours trying to figure how to get a LandXML surface to import when I had no problems doing this before. Even when I was learning C3D I never had so many problems as InfraWorks doing what should be simple tasks. 

[Cadguru42]

I spoke too soon. There is a huge hole in the surface in the middle. 

Surface in Civil 3D 2016:

Same DWG brought into Infraworks:

Why is InfraWorks creating a hole in the surface? I also brought in a DWG that had a single road alignment with profile and it's also not displaying where the hole is. 

[Cadguru42]

While looking at the grid size for the terrain, I changed it from 10 to 5. Now the entire northern half of the surface is gone as well as the road.

[roskirko]

Try changing the grid size from 10 to 12 to see what happens.

[Cadguru42]

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@roskirko wrote:

Try changing the grid size from 10 to 12 to see what happens.

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I tried that and it didn't do anything. Next, I removed the surface completely. From C3D I exported an IMX file of the surface drawing. I imported the IMX into Infraworks and it was still missing the northern half. It's like the tile generation just isn't working correctly. 

[Cadguru42]

I guess I'll have to create a support request as to why Infraworks can't display a surface properly. I've tried LandXML (two different files), an IMX from the source surface DWG, and a direct import of the C3D file. None of these methods will let Infraworks display the surface even though there are no issues in Civil 3D with the surface. The latest attempt was to recreate a LandXML of the surface and import that. Infraworks doesn't display anything at all in the model area no matter if it's refreshed nor reimported. I've tried multiple projects as well and InfraWorks just fails to display this surface.

This surface isn't even that large compared to many I've seen. It's 616,072 triangles according to Civil 3D. Without this surface, I can't do anything else regarding InfraWorks. 

[Cadguru42]

I created a support request for this issue on March 28. The original SR had the C3D drawing with the surface in it as well as screenshots showing the surface in C3D versus InfraWorks. That night, after work hours, I got a reply back from Autodesk asking for the drawing file. I replied on March 29th first thing in the morning that I already attached the file to the original request. A few hours later I get a reply that he saw the file and he was looking into it. That's the last I've heard back from Autodesk regarding the inability of InfraWorks to correctly import this surface. 

Is this how Autodesk is planning on responding to issues with their software from now on?

[Cadguru42]

Autodesk still has not responded to me after the initial request for the DWG that was already uploaded. I've asked three times now what the status is of this support request and no response from Autodesk. It has now been an entire week without Autodesk doing anything. 

[Cadguru42]

@SethHall

Nevermind. Someone finally responded after my 4th request. 

[Carrillof]

Can you share your file for testing? So it could evaluate alternatives

[Carrillof]

I recommend you split it into 2 files and within Infraworks connect the 2 surfaces, with that there should be no problem

[Anonymous]

@Cadguru42

I've had similar frustrations. In my experience sometimes if there is a small hole in the surface, in C3D it will still display correctly. However in IW360 something weird happens, like creating a big hole or big parts missing.

What I suggest you to try is in C3D, use a surface style that displays border only with very thick lines. See if there are any small holes in it. If there are, patch them up and try in IW360 again.

If there were no small holes, then try cutting the surface in in half and import in IW360. Work your way to smaller and smaller parts. Try to pinpoint which part(s) is giving you problems. Kinda what Carrillo proposed.

[Cadguru42]

This is just a status update regarding this issue. I talked with Autodesk support on Friday the 7th (a week ago), he said he was going to look more into it and get back with me on Monday the 10th. It's the 14th and I still haven't received any more information about this. 

[Anonymous]

@Cadguru42

The power of Autodesk software is not (only) their support.

It's also the community helping eachother out.

Many members are hunting for kudo's & solutions

If you posted your .xml file, the problem might have been identified already.

[Cadguru42]

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@Anonymous wrote:

@Cadguru42

The power of Autodesk software is not (only) their support.

It's also the community helping eachother out.

Many members are hunting for kudo's & solutions

If you posted your .xml file, the problem might have been identified already.

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I can't post the file. I've been using the forums since before they even had the web version, so I know about how the peer help works. 🙂

Oh, and I still haven't heard back from Autodesk. It's just sad that paying tens of thousands of dollars for software gets this level of support from Autodesk. 

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @Cadguru42

thanks for the inforamtion about the support request.

(Maybe it's a good idea to send the support specialist another reminder in this issue? Speaking of me, I am sometimes busy with very urgent support issues. If a customer stays quiet you tend to think it's not urgent in the moment.)

I have had a look at the DWG and surface in this case. You are saying that the LandXML makes no issues in Civil 3D, which is not 100% correct. I exported the LandXML file and re-imported it in Civil 3D 2018 and I received error notifications about duplicate points and errors with information about adjacent faces. The program used LandXML V1.1 to be able to import the data.

However, I can also see that the terrain engi9ne in InfraWorks has problems building the surface from that LandXML file. From my point of view it has errors and/or the triangulation is not correct or does not fulfill certain rules (i.e. maximum length of triangle sides, maximum angles in triangles, etc.).

Can you say how you have created the surface and what workflow you used?

It seems as if it was merged from many different surfaces (EG, corridors, etc).

I was finally able to create a good terrain in InfraWorks with an IMX file and InfraWorks configuration settings:

• 3D Model Options = Tile (true)
• Converte = Convert to Grid (false)

Please let me know if you want me to share the InfraWorks model with you - I used InfraWorks 2018.

Regards,

Karsten.

[Cadguru42]

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@Karsten.Saenger wrote:

Hi @Cadguru42

thanks for the inforamtion about the support request.

(Maybe it's a good idea to send the support specialist another reminder in this issue? Speaking of me, I am sometimes busy with very urgent support issues. If a customer stays quiet you tend to think it's not urgent in the moment.)

I have had a look at the DWG and surface in this case. You are saying that the LandXML makes no issues in Civil 3D, which is not 100% correct. I exported the LandXML file and re-imported it in Civil 3D 2018 and I received error notifications about duplicate points and errors with information about adjacent faces. The program used LandXML V1.1 to be able to import the data.

However, I can also see that the terrain engi9ne in InfraWorks has problems building the surface from that LandXML file. From my point of view it has errors and/or the triangulation is not correct or does not fulfill certain rules (i.e. maximum length of triangle sides, maximum angles in triangles, etc.).

Can you say how you have created the surface and what workflow you used?

It seems as if it was merged from many different surfaces (EG, corridors, etc).

I was finally able to create a good terrain in InfraWorks with an IMX file and InfraWorks configuration settings:

• 3D Model Options = Tile (true)
• Converte = Convert to Grid (false)

Please let me know if you want me to share the InfraWorks model with you - I used InfraWorks 2018.

Regards,

Karsten.

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I created the LandXML surface by exporting the composite surface from Civil 3D into a single LandXML surface. If there are errors with the surface then it's Civil 3D 2016 making an incorrect surface. When I import that same LandXML surface into a new C3D 2016 drawing there are no errors on import. I am using Infraworks 2017.2. If you exported/imported the surface using LandXML v1.1 that could be why as I used v1.2. Does InfraWorks or Civil 3D have issues exporting surfaces with LandXML v1.2 and recommend using v1.1?

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @Cadguru42

I used Civil 3D 2018 for exporting/importing the LandXML file. It was the program that switched automatically to LandXML version 1.1.

As I don't have the original LandXML available, this could also be an issue in the DWG with the surface and missing source file.

Other than that - have you tried creating/exporting the various surfaces out of Civil 3D (without merging all into a single surface)?

Then import them into InfraWorks - the program will merge them into one single terrain surface. If that works fine you can export one single surface out of InfraWorks as IMX.

Regards,

Karsten

[Cadguru42]

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@Karsten.Saenger wrote:

Hi @Cadguru42

I used Civil 3D 2018 for exporting/importing the LandXML file. It was the program that switched automatically to LandXML version 1.1.

As I don't have the original LandXML available, this could also be an issue in the DWG with the surface and missing source file.

Other than that - have you tried creating/exporting the various surfaces out of Civil 3D (without merging all into a single surface)?

Then import them into InfraWorks - the program will merge them into one single terrain surface. If that works fine you can export one single surface out of InfraWorks as IMX.

Regards,

Karsten

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I'm using C3D 2016 SP3 and InfraWorks 2017.2. I don't have access to 2018 and since Autodesk has made C3D 2017 and 2018 not backwards compatible there is no way we're going to change to 2018 anytime soon. Why is Autodesk making the C3D 2018 LandXML export default to v1.1 instead of v1.2? Is there something wrong with v1.2? 

The drawing that I sent to Autodesk was started from a blank drawing with the LandXML surface imported into it. In C3D 2016 there are no errors associated with the surface. The support guy said that it could be something related to C3D 2016 and Infraworks 2017.2. He was going to install those two and see if he could reproduce what he saw from my end, but he never contacted me again. 

I have moved on to other issues, but the fact that InfraWorks couldn't import the LandXML nor import the DWG is troubling and should be researched.