Tool Orentation Bug that needs to be address and fixed - it's been over 2 years

[Anonymous]

Hi Guys,

I could use some help with this - i am using a cnc gang lathe CMS GT27 with 8025 Fagor control

So i have been having this issue for a long time and have asked about it in the past and the response is it is in the post processor. I have tried to make changes and all looked ok for a little bit but when i started trying to cut a radius is where the issue happens the worst. so for the most part i have given up and i come to the realization that it is not the post processor and here is why

1) when setting up the lathe tool holder in edit tool  i select Counter Clock Wise direction but the tool just flips over then i select the orientation to the way it is installed on the Lathe that would be from the X- to 0 not the normal X+ to 0 and then the path generation is unable to create a path. it gets path error and it trying to generate the tool path from the X+ to 0 direction 

2) when i leave the tool oriented from the X+ to 0 but CCW selected, then it creates the code but it uses  G03 and all positive X values.

3) i change the G03 to a G02 and also change the X values to be negative but the radius is still not correct.

So you might ask please upload a the drawing but that is not needed, just make a .5 cylinder 4" inch long and a .25 radius on the end and you will have the drawing also use any post processor that comes with fusion - i use Haas Lathe same issue

use any tool you want. but fusion 360 will not be able to  produce the code to use the tool from the negative X direction. only works good as long as the tool is from the X positive direction.

It would be nice if the Fusion group would address this issue instead of claiming it is a post processor issue. It is not - it is related to a core limitation in the software it self !!!!!

Then you guys say -> fix this in the post processor.

So to fix this in the post processor is the wrong place and could also be dangerous. if you make the mods and get used to using it that way and then add a tool from the other direction and  crash. (yes you should verify the tool path every time but if ignored could cause some issues.) so then have different post processors for each tool variation. pain in the ..

So the root of the issue is located in the Lathe Tool Edit page under the setup tab and it lets you select witch way the tool is pointing but if you select the lower arrow (X- ) it will still put the tool above the center line of the material. It should drop the tool below the center line to be correct and then generate the tool path in the Negative X. otherwise that selection in that menu is useless  and should be removed. also to add a picture of a peace of material in the middle of the arrows for orientation would be good.

as far as The clockwise or counter clock wise checkbox, It should be changed to read tool facing upright or upside down - the spindle direction should be derived from the direction the tool is pointing at the material and if it is upright or upside down to do it correctly, and then place the tool in the drawing in the correct orientation.

i wish the fusion group would address the issue instead of passing it off as a post processor issue - it is  a fusion issue and needs to be fixed, so far it looks like you know it but do not address or

maybe have never used it to machine anything and don't see the importance.. I guess if your market is just hobbyist then who cares  whether it is correct or not but if you are trying to compete with real professional software then it should be fixed. 

Its funny, i have seen a lot of the help vids put out by people from autodesk and showing how to use the software, how to use the CAM processor And it has been very helpful, But i don't think they have ever cut a single chip with the code it generates. it would be nice to see if the developers that made the Videos could Actuality use to make a part from the generated code.

So please fix the issue in Fusion, it is not in the post because that is not the correct way to fix a programming error.   

Question: 

I need a crow bar to pry with but i could use a screw driver to do it, Is that the right way ?    No!

Please let me know if any other ideas to fix this issue

Thanks for any input

Mitch

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

To be honest I think the issue here is that gang-tool Lathe's aren't supported by default.

Because you want to have the tool cut on the X- side of the part if I understand correctly?

If that is the case I understand why they say it's a post issue because there is no support for this in the CAM-Side and a lot can be "hacked" in the post.

So while I understand your frustration I think it's just a limitation of the software.

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Thanks for the comment but think about this

This problem is experienced by everyone that’s trying to use tools from the X- direction with or without gang setup

But as I have stated :

The root of the issue is located in the Lathe Tool Edit page under the setup tab and it lets you select which way the tool is pointing

 but if you select the lower arrow (X- ) it will still put the tool above the center line of the material. It should drop the tool below

the center line to be correct and then generate the tool path in the Negative X.

otherwise that selection in that menu is useless  and should be removed.

What I see is that the developers are using a processor that generates  mill  code to generate code for a lathe and it is missing the other half that handles the X- code

Yes it can be compensated from the post processor side but will cause issues and is not the right way to fix it!

Read what I written in Red. That’s the issue – if no support is planned remove it and change the check box to reflect what it actually does.

I think to say fix it in the post processor is the Lame way to address the issue of poor programming.

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

@Anonymous

It's not that the post can't handle X- code, it's that the software doesn't support negative X turning.

The tool orientation in the tool library doesn't matter for which side of the X0 it needs to turn.

So indeed doesn't matter if you are using a gang-tool setup or something else.

Turning on the negative side of X0 isn't supported by the software and can only be hacked to behave like that in the post.

So what I'm saying ultimately is that I think they would want to support it in the future, but now there is no support for this so it isn't really a bug.

The feature isn't there so it can't behave wrongly. 

[Anonymous]

Hi Lauren,

Thank you for the response,  And I understand what you are saying and I think it would be nice if that was clearly stated. As I had suggested in my text.

located in the Lathe Tool, Edit page, in the setup tab under [ Orientation in Turret ]  the Arrows let you select the way the tool is pointing and being able to select an orientation that could only be used in an X- direction implies that X- is supported,  and given what you are saying now, It should be removed to help eliminate confusion and also a statement added stating that  Fusion is only supporting X+ and not X- unless hacked in the post or something like that. Then it would be clear and would not be an issue anymore. But until I just received this email from you I had no idea that there was no support for the X- and it looked like it is a programming bug. Please understand that I have been wasting many hours trying to get this to work correctly with no success. I know that it can be done to some level in the post processor but results very and can cause a lot of unintentional issues / crashes. So if possible please make notice of this as I am sure there are a lot of people that will have the same issue as I have been experiencing and I think this would make it clear as to why.

Sorry if I have been getting a little bit aggressive on my posts but every time I have seen this come up I always here it is not a fusion problem and needs to be fixed in the post which is incorrect. So as you stated It is a limitation in fusion and at this time can only be partially supported by the modifying the post processor which may or may not work correctly.

Thanks again for your support

Regards

Mitch

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

@Anonymous

Couldn't agree with you more on clearly stating what the software does and doesn't do.

This is vital for happy users and informed decisions.

I'm not sure if the rotation isn't used for other things as well. I believe has something to do with the rotation(CW/CCW) and tool being left or right. So I can't say if it should be removed. That would be something for the development team.

@al.whatmough pretty sure X- turning is a future consideration right?