199 Kudos

Locally Store All Files

Status: Accepted
by Collaborator Josh.nelson on ‎12-07-2016 10:27 AM - last edited on ‎12-07-2016 10:34 AM |

In light of today's events (see post here), I believe it would be beneficial to allow users to locally store all Fusion files and data.  The data can still be backed up to the server, but is locally stored first.  This would prevent server outages from becoming catastrophic events for businesses, schools, and individuals.  If users did not want to locally store files (due to disk space or other reasons), they could elect not to in Fusion's preferences.  Or perhaps this could be a setting for each folder or project.

 

Manually, individually backing up files (a current Fusion capability) is not a reasonable solution to this problem.  Not only is it time-consuming and difficult to manage well, it does not currently work for designs that have XREFs.

 

I personally have no problem using the cloud for storage and computing (such as simulations).  There are some great things that Fusion allows because of this capability.  The lack of local storage as a backup, however, is an issue for me.

Status: Accepted

We are working on this with multiple teams already. Prabakar already laid out the plan in his post so I'll link to that - http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-validate-document/this-is-what-we-re-doing-about-these-outages/...

 

Giving you access to your data regardless of service issues is a top priority, so rest assured that the projects we're working on will make it happen. It may be not in exact solution some of you are looking for, but so many of you chiming and sharing ideas, we know the crux of the problem and are working on it.

 

Thanks,

Bankim

Comments
By: Contributor fourdimensionaldoors
| Posted ‎12-11-2016 01:08 PM

  I currently have a serious issue where all the recent work I have been doing WILL NOT UPLOAD [NOT related to the outage], it takes hours and each larger file upload [since an update over a month ago] finally fails and during that time I have no access to local data [that I know is there] so I cannot do any work until I go into off-line mode.  To say that all that time really kills the work flow,.. just doesn't quite cover it.

  Since then there has been another update and the issue still exists so I am guessing that the issue is in the local file data, and yet fusion doesn't seem to have an issue reading, manipulating, and writing the files/data and even writing new ones when I use 'save as', and even those files have the same issue.  So this bug is interesting in that something inherent in the file data structure itself [that fusion can still use and manipulate] and the uploading methods involved, prevents the data from being uploaded.  I used a network monitor to check the upload data flow rate for Fusion and when it comes to those files for some reason there is almost no data uploading.  It is so low that I believe that no actual file data is transferred and only common cross talk communication is going on [from about 256 bytes to less than 400K bytes].
 
  All the work I have done on this project for the last Two months is STUCK in the final file and it won't upload!  As a direct result of that I cannot make and *.F3D file of my final work since I can only export to 4 different file types [*.step giving the most information but still horribly insufficient {lost sketches, references, materials, history, etc.}] and it can only be done on line AFTER UPLOAD, so I cannot even give a useful reference file for the bug report.  I have been collecting data including screen shots and multiple attempts to fix it, in order to form a complete bug report [I am a programmer so I understand the need for verbose bug reports].  There is so much to tell but my frustration has grown terribly and as a result my work on the bug report has slowed.  I am about ready to just dump it all and hope for the best.

Some failings I have noticed are:
*-> No access to off-line mode files while in on-line mode.  This seems odd since trying stop files from changing until they are uploaded would be silly since on-line mode files would still have that issue but yet you can load edit and save those, but not off-line mode files,.. again, it seems silly to not have access to those 'until the upload is done'.
*-> No local export to the *.F3D format, I mean, it IS YOUR proprietary file format, it also seems silly to not have local off-line access to that functionality.  How do you write the files on the local computer when in off-line mode?..  If it is not the same as the F3D format then maybe you should consider what is wrong with that format that you cannot use it for the local save.
*-> While in off-line mode I had also noticed multiple references/versions of the same files in the list [I have images of this].
*-> While in off-line mode there is so little functionality it makes it almost useless, I can't even remove/delete a file, or even sort the list by any criteria, or ... [long list of shortcomings omitted for brevity].
*-> To simplify, off-line mode sucks but I have no real choice but to use it since any data overages on my internet service would make it prohibitively expensive to use this program in on-line mode all the time.

So, YES, I am totally for this, and YES it does seem silly to not have that!

P.S.:  Some other things I have noticed:
*-> Another obvious thing is the extremely long startup time, the time it takes for the program to start is ridiculous.  I am guessing this is because of making everything "web based" instead of using local assembly or VM code with a control for web interfaces.
*-> Then after completing all that work which was for the purpose of creating an animation of the functionality I discover that joint functionality is disabled for the animation work space which seems an oddly arbitrary restriction which one would think to be an intuitive required inclusion for animation,.. otherwise you are only left with individual tiny piece movements like 'exploded view', I mean you can't even show the model in common configurations without a huge amount of work to put all the pieces in just the right places and then all you have is a static image which defeats the purpose of an animation, and even if you tried to do that and have it 'animate' the pieces to that position they would not follow the joint movements which would just make it look goofy.  Only having that one case of an animation for exploded assembly viewing,.. Except as an option to do special exploded views, It just doesn't make sense to disable joint movements for this mode.  

 

By: Advisor roambotics_scott
| Posted ‎12-11-2016 01:16 PM

Seriously I've said this before but the program is fundamentally broken by unnecessarily putting the cloud in the critical path

 

Capture d’écran 2016-12-11 à 13.09.10.png

 

Please don't ignore this Carl, and AD. It's at 70 votes and counting with three pages of comments and isn't very old.

By: Contributor fourdimensionaldoors
| Posted ‎12-11-2016 01:46 PM

I second that.

By: Participant Hardened
| Posted ‎12-11-2016 01:56 PM
Third.



Emphatically.





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By: Mentor
| Posted ‎12-11-2016 08:23 PM

@devonW2YQN

 

Form follows function should be called "Form follows failure" !!!

 

I am all for local storage and let it sync to the cloud as well.

And in addition maybe this:

 

In perferences give users an option that all new projects should by default stored locally for ever or after a certain period of time remain ony in the cloud. Projects then need a check mark you can hit to store local for as long as that they are marked to do so.

Obviously at the same time Fusion syncs to the cloud.

 

This is pretty much the way how dropbox, google drive work.

I have my complete business set-up that way.

When a project is done that folder I will deactivate to be synced to the desktop and it will remain in the cloud.

 

 

Works perfect - and I work in different environments, my own studio, on the road, as well as in my class room when teaching.

 

I am all for cloud data - but local data is a much more must. The last outage forced me to cancel two classes. Not a big deal.

But for businesses this is worse.

By: Mentor
| Posted ‎12-14-2016 01:39 PM

3 pages and 90 votes. I too, fully support anything that will help protect our unfettered access to our data whenever we need it, independent of all the many things outside of your (Autodesk) control

By: Advisor roambotics_scott
| Posted ‎12-14-2016 01:48 PM

@carl.bass I know cloud dependence is a religious thing for you guys, and maybe me saying this will go down as more «bad behavior on the forums» from me for you, but  @cekuhnen et al being onboard seems pretty significant to me

By: Mentor
| Posted ‎12-14-2016 02:07 PM , edited ‎12-14-2016 02:10 PM |

@roambotics_scott @carl.bass

 

Cloud can be a blessing or a show stopper.

 

every Fusion user that has a client where the contract requires no storage of data on external servers cannot legally use fusion.

 

that is sad and lost business opportunity for AD!

 

personally I love the cloud part. Fortunately non of my clients care. So do the clients of my desinf friend I teach together with.

As an educator having access to all of my data and my students stats where ever we are is amazing. Finally no more sending files via emails and design versions are always in sync. In my studio if I switch my computer or OS I do not need to have separate local backups.

 

however if a client requires storing the data securely local than that is something Autodesk not only has to but honestly should consider. It would be futile to ignore that. Carl you would not only harm the users of Fusion, you would much more harm the usability of Fusion in design projects.

 

i think there should not be an any reason why a user should not be able to only store a file locally.

with this they can sufficiently meet the NDA requirement. If they by accident sync it online - then this was a user induced action.

But this way Fusion will be usable for every project requirement.

 

at the end this would be only a win win

 

which is why I think that this is a no brainer and after having talked shot this for over 2 years and more this seriously should be implemented.

 

 

LIberate the software - it will empower the users - in the end you as AD want to sell a product!

 

 

PS : on a side note when the servers crash you also do not get an avalanche of angry users. If they did not store data locally then it was their own fault!

 

 

By: Advisor roambotics_scott
| Posted ‎12-14-2016 02:15 PM

@cekuhnen @carl.bass I'm particularly bothered about this because I'm well versed in client-server and distributed architectures and there is literally zero technical reason why it couldn't work perfectly well offline with the cloud stuff progressively enhancing its capabilities when those resources are desired and available

 

Unless I'm missing something huge about the architecture or what the cloud back-end is or could be doing (and I really can't imagine I am), not doing this just comes down to obstinate dogmatism 

By: Mentor
| Posted ‎12-14-2016 02:37 PM

@roambotics_scott I think this is all related to how they might have started :

 

where is fusion installed on the hd 

where are the design files stored

and how does everything sync online and work with the online functions

 

i can on,y imagine that this is not a small thing. Considering ADs last vision presentsri0n about working in the cloud this makes sense.

 

however NDA requirements not to store data on external severs will never change in the near future.

By: Participant Hardened
| Posted ‎12-14-2016 03:12 PM
I agree that there are significant issues with blocking local storage.



My company does work for JSOC, Combat Applications Group, and other entities
that are rightly concerned about any form of off-site storage.



For those clients I am unable to use Fusion, and it creates extra work and
frustrations that are an added cost, in time, effort, and money.



I do hope that the Fusion Team is hearing us on this one.







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By: Advisor roambotics_scott
| Posted ‎12-14-2016 04:16 PM

@cekuhnen I'm sure it's not a small thing to change.. but because of spaghetti tendrils in the app and not for any good technical / architectural reason

 

Haven't seen that presentation but have heard about it and honestly sounds like BS back-justification to me

By: Mentor
| Posted ‎12-14-2016 04:37 PM

@roambotics_scott Depends on how you see or could use it.

 

Their vision about how you can manipulate data in workspaces reminded me about an app development system with System 7 from Apple many years ago. I cannot remember it anymore (it is not hypercard).

 

What they presented makes sense - if in the end it will work out.

By: Advisor roambotics_scott
| Posted ‎12-14-2016 04:42 PM

Perhaps OpenDoc, @cekuhnen ? 

 

That's great and all, but it also in no way requires cloud dependence.

 

With the right architecture, it can work perfectly well disconnected while being enhanced with cloud features when available (and when the user opts in)

By: Mentor
| Posted ‎12-14-2016 04:47 PM

@roambotics_scott

 

Yes openDoc man I was not able to google or remember it.

 

I think the best idea is to wait some time and see what AD will deliver anyway.

It seems they are going into the direction needed based on user input.

 

So lets wait drink some tee and then evaluate.

By: Advisor roambotics_scott
| Posted ‎12-14-2016 04:58 PM , edited ‎12-14-2016 04:59 PM |

I'm happy to drink tea and wait, and I'll even say that the NDA local-only data issue is temporary. AWS is already DOD SRG (Security Requirements Guide) compliant up to at least IL4 (Impact Level 4), and there is no technical reason why they couldn't be even more secure with the right architecture.

 

..BUT the hard cloud dependence should be considered a bug and fixed for stability and reliability.

 

It's Carl's ball and he can do what he likes with it, but not fixing this is just needlessly going out of the way to annoy and alienate customers

By: Participant Ace42
| Posted ‎12-15-2016 09:45 AM

The concept of storing everything in the cloud sounds great, and is very forward thinking.   But the realities are, that reliability has to be 100% guaranteed for that to work.  There is no such think at a 100% reliable connection to the "cloud"  bad internet,  servers down,  international travel,    All of these cause major hiccups.   If the data is backed up on the cloud, and locally,  it would build in redundancy that would make the system more reliable. 

 

this post about autodesk desktop connect  sound fantastic.  How is progress being made on this update?   any news?   Desktop connect looks like it will be what we are all looking for and more.   

 

Thanks for the good work, and keep it up

 

By: Contributor jszaboABD67
| Posted ‎12-15-2016 04:18 PM

Luckily I wasn't working using Fusion 360 during "the Big Outage". My work doesn't have high speed internet access even though its in a populated area, and won't have high speed for a long time.  Because of this and other reasons I loath the "cloud" only storage option, and can't believe the narrow-sightedness of this.  I occasionally have needed to work offline because of our slow and intermittent internet and was blown away at how fast everything worked when not shackled, ball-&-chain like, to the AutoDesk data servers.

 

GIVE ME LOCAL STORAGE!!!!

 

Please.

By: Community Manager
| Posted ‎12-16-2016 10:34 AM , edited ‎12-16-2016 10:42 AM |
Status changed to: Accepted

We are working on this with multiple teams already. Prabakar already laid out the plan in his post so I'll link to that - http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-validate-document/this-is-what-we-re-doing-about-these-outages/...

 

Giving you access to your data regardless of service issues is a top priority, so rest assured that the projects we're working on will make it happen. It may be not in exact solution some of you are looking for, but so many of you chiming and sharing ideas, we know the crux of the problem and are working on it.

 

Thanks,

Bankim

By: Participant Smartkid
January |

This is the single most important issue for Fusion 360 IMHO.

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