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Pipe connector behaviour and control

The way Revit handles connectors and routing is sometimes far from reality.

I think that more things have to be controled by the connectors -since it is this way in reality- rather then the system, routing, or global setting.

 

Let me give two examples:

 

- Angle tolerance: it is in Revit a global parameter. The only thing controlable by the connector itself if wethever you allow the tolerance or not, and only if the connector is set on "global". The fact is that in reality, it depends on the connector itself. The angle tolerance if different wether you have steel pipes, plastic pipes, copper pipes, etc. It is impossible to handle these differences with a global parameter in Revit.

 

- Flanges (and other connector types): In Revit, using flanges depends on the system. In reality it is not the case. In a same system, we will need or not flanges depending on what we are connecting.

Here is a simple example of what I have to draw everyday, for a single system: Pipe / welded union ball valve / pipe / welded transition / pipe / flanged 3-way valve / pipe / welded transition / pipe / flanged pump / pipe / welded union ball valve / pipe.

What happens is that:
    - the ball-valve will always be welded by its union fitting,
    - the 3-way valve can be welded by union fitting or flanged according to its size,
    - the transitions (and elbows, tees, etc.) will always be welded,
    - the pump can be welded by union fitting or flanged according to its manufacturer.

It is just impossible to handle if it is system related and not connector related.

It is of course the same for other connector types (victaulic, glued, etc.)

 

This really has to change if we want piping to become accurate in Revit.

 

Oh, by the way, needless to say that AutoCAD MEP handles these parameters by connector, as it should, making it an other case of "AutoCAD does it better"...

 

Comentarios
Autodesk
Autodesk

Modeling at the level of detail and issues you raise above is part of the reason that we are integrating Fabrication piping into Revit.  Have you explored that functionality yet?

Anonymous

In fact, in just noticed this. It looks nice. I'll be looking at this more in detail and see if it solves the issues.

Are the configurations new to Revit 2017? I couldn't make it work on 2016...

Thanks!

Autodesk
Autodesk

 Hello-- In 2016, the Configurations are downloadable from the Help, we were a bit late with wrapping up the content build to get it in as part of the installer:  http://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2016/ENU/?guid=GUID-12CF009B-3D4B-45D5-84C7-4EDEF2D8C52D

 

Anonymous

On the Fabrication element, how can I not get the flanges to break up the line where I need to insert them, also how can I edit the parts example, I want a PN16 flange not PN25, but I don't seem to have the option to edit these.

 

thanks

Autodesk
Autodesk

Hi Craig-- I'm not sure i understand your question: "how can I not get the flanges to break up the line where I need to insert them".. can you provide an image/example of what you have, and what you're trying to accomplish?

 

re: "how can I edit the parts"

the content is managed/edited in one of the Fabrication products: CADmep/CAMduct/ESTmep.  If you need to modify the type of flange(s) in a particular service, you would do that in one of those products.  

Anonymous

Hi Martin,

I read you in an other thread about fabrication parts keeping MEP info (flow, pressure drop, etc.) for the 2018 release.

I'm not using the 2018 yet (finishing some "old" projects on 2016 and 2017).

Does it work "correctly" now?

Autodesk
Autodesk

Hi ATEN.vbl.. we don't have analytical capabilities on Fabrication LOD elements at present... we are still working on solving some core improvements on the analytical capabilities for hydronic (heating/cooling) systems before venturing into the additional complexity that Fabrication elements bring.  

 

What kind of systems (heating/cooling comfort, domestic water, process piping), fluids, materials, and equipment are you most interested in seeing this applied to?

 

Thanks,

MS

 

Anonymous

Hello Martin,

Since our company works essentially on HVAC and Plumbing projects, we would be interested it applied to HVAC and plumbing related systems, for water and steam fluids, and all related equipment.

But I guess other companies would need more systems and fluids... so I believe it should apply to anything that can be modeled in Revit. :cara_guiñando_un_ojo:

Anonymous

Martin,

 

Our company has looked into using Fabrication before and we were very excited about it until we realized that it had no analytical functionality. We typically design our projects with a high LOD since many of them are fairly complex and have tight tolerances. The functionality of Fabrication would help immensely, specifically at coil control valve assemblies, where going back and forth between connection types is required. Has the development of Fabrication and including analytical functionalities progressed with the new versions of Revit? We would love to use Fabrication during design, but not having analytical functionality defeats many of the QC and design check processes that we like being able to perform in Revit. The combination of these things would save us so much time and so many headaches dealing with many of the issues related to Revit MEP.

Autodesk
Autodesk

Hi @Anonymous - thanks for the input... sadly, no, we still don't have analytical capabilities on Fabrication elements.

 

Anonymous

Hello Martin,

Wasn't this supposed to be in the 2018 roadmap already? We talked this over when we met at Autodesk's Forums in Paris several time ago, I was hoping it could get solved quickly.

Do you have any idea of when this could work out?

Thanks!

Vincent

Autodesk
Autodesk

Hi @Anonymous-- no, we don't have a specific timeframe for this.  If it makes it to the roadmap, it will be communicated via the Revit Roadmap.

Martin,

I hope you read this...

Our company has been using fabrication parts inside of Revit for the last two years, and their functionality is OK at best. I am not a big fan, but members of my team seem to like them because they are easy to use, and they come as a tool pallet. But as an admin, I struggle every time I have to reload a configuration (the reload times and multiple errors where parts were deleted in the central model, or you don't permission edit the element and after 45 minutes of waiting for nothing happens due to these errors). Additionally, the issues I have hangers and their reports or lack of information in them is enough to drive any sane man crazy. I don't believe you know how exactly how close you are to being able to make the single biggest change in Revit that people are looking for on the piping and duct side since 2010 when the ability to slope pipe came out. All Autodesk has to do is add a parameter to its fitting connectors. It is just that simple, and I am sure it is something one of the members of you're could do in less than a week or two of programming.

 

All you have have to do is when a pipe or duct fitting is created, assign it one of 4 connector type parameters, and that can pretty much cover almost every type of end connection out there.

  1. Generic: an end to end connection for generic fittings, no change required (would change nothing inside of Revit)
  2. Socket: For connections Round & Oval duct, PVC, Copper, Pex, Brazed, etc.... (No Routing Preferences changes needed in other words would change nothing inside of Revit)
  3. Joined or Coupled: For slip & drive duct connections, gapped welded connections, grooved, no hub, etc.. (A minor change to the routing preferences to allow for a coupling to be inserted as these fittings are used).
  4. Flanged: for all flange to flange connections already in the routing preferences. 

Additionally, I would recommend adding a text parameter called "End Condition" to the connector element. For when a pipe/duct is attached to a fitting, the end connection parameter will be transferred to the pipe/duct, so when it's scheduled, the end-user will know its end condition.

 

In closing, I would like to say contractor companies like mine and manufacturing companies like Victaulic and Gruvlok have been creating spool drawings from Revit using families for years now. By using groove coupling as flanges in the current way, Revit routing preferences are set up now. But by making this minor change, it could go a long way in making our and their workflows much more efficient, and I am sure that's Autodesk's end goals are customer satisfaction and ease of use.

 

Also, I will start a new thread with this request.

 

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Advocate
Advocate

Hi, 

 

can anyone confirm if this ever got resolved? 

 

we are moving into revit (high level of detail for process pipe) and we are facing the same issues with flanged systems. welded etc. 

 

many thanks 

No, there has not been any real movement on anything having to do with Revit Pipe families, Autodesk appears to be more focused on fabrication content. 

Advocate
Advocate

but MEP files dont include for Cobie Data etc? 

Now Cobie functionality I can't comment on, but it would not surprise me that Fab parts have no options for it's Data collection.