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Ability to Rehost Elements before Deleting a Level

When deleting a Level a meaningful warning should tell you what is going to be deleted before you hit OK.

This way you can locate the objects and place them in a different Level. Then try again until all the objects hosted on the Level have been re-hosted to a different Level. Only then you can safely delete the Level.

 

At the moment, Revit 2018, you try to delete a Level and a warning tells you that a view is going to be deleted. You click OK and a whole bunch of things disappear without warning. There is no undo available for this action. Only then you get an idea of what was deleted. Too late.

Ideally, we should be able to select ALL objects hosted to a Level.

 

When Unloading a DWG you get a warning that this action cannot be undone even though you can reload it just as easily. But when deleting a Level which has serious repercussions no such warning and no Undo. Very NASTY tool.

Comentarios
Advisor
Advisor

If you delete a level in Revit, it deletes all objects on that level - no warning is given.

 

There should be a safe way of finding objects that are assigned to that level and reassigning them to a differnt level.

 

Perhaps Revit could automatically assign them to the level below?

 

Its a real problem if you create too many levels at the beginning of a project, you cant then delete some as you'll lose informaiton.

Anonymous

This sounds a lot like a bug, though a developer might call this a feature.

 

I hope Autodesk puts adding a warning for this on their high priority list.

 

When a level is deleted, the items should just float in the air and become unassociated or unhosted.

Community Manager
Community Manager
El estado se ha cambiado a: Under Review

Thanks for your submission and votes on this idea!  We are evaluating where this request falls into our roadmap and will provide an update when we have made a decision. 

 

The Factory

Anonymous

Agreed, it might be simplest to either have them re-associate their elevation to the bottom-most layer OR require us to re-associate with the level of our choice, but still maintain the original elevation.  And remaining dimensions become disassociated, so objects remain in their original position. 

 

At the same time, perhaps there could also be a dialogue to select all objects on a specific layer too?

Anonymous

There should be a way to "List all elements associated with level x" i.e. a schedule.  Then be able to sort that list and reassign those items to other levels.  That way you could confirm a level is not in use and has been cleaned out before deleting.

 

 

 

Anonymous

While Autodesk is looking into this as a possible solution to integrate into Revit, there is a solution for this. Check out Ideate Software's Ideate Apps package. It includes a tool called Smart Delete and it will list every single element, view, etc. that would be affected if you delete a level, or for that matter, anything in Revit (like deleting a door...all the door tags, dimensions to doors, etc. will delete as well).

 

Sash Kazeminejad

Contributor
Contributor

The elements on a deleted level can just be assigned the offsets from the nearest level and remain in place.
I agree that this is the issue that has long been haunting all Revit users and needs to be finally addressed.

Advisor
Advisor

Please add the ability to delete level without deleting constrainted object. 

 

It would be nice to get a dialog box with a list of affected items where you can select items to delete or keep with a replacement level assignment.

Anonymous

This is a fairly common request and you can find the parent Idea at the link below.  It's currently under review in Autodesk's review process.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/safe-way-to-delete-levels/idi-p/6572568

Advisor
Advisor

Voted! I hope Adsk will not delay with the decision.

 

This board needs an option to deal with similar ideas.

Anonymous

Would be ideal REVIT would prompt user to place the elements all on an "unassociated" or "unhosted" level (temporary level) and/ or to assign a new level on the spot.  Yes the option and error boxes should be the way to go to keep the user involved in placing/saving the elements on a deleted level.

Anonymous

@Anonymous, where can i find the Ideate Software App?  I didnt even know this existed!

Anonymous

Hi @Anonymous,

 

You can find Ideate Apps and other Ideate Software applications for Revit at www.ideatesoftware.com

 

Here is the trial download link: http://ideatesoftware.com/download

 

Let me know how you like it and if you have any questions.

 

Sash

Anonymous

Hi @SashKaz, thank you i will take a look and let you know! :cara_con_una_leve_sonrisa:

Anonymous

I think this falls into two categories:

  • Providing proper warning when deleting a level, especially for elements that will get deleted
  • Providing a way to see a list of the elements who rely of the level as dependencies (floors, walls, views, etc)

I'm in the process of cleaning up useless levels and it is quite a scary job.

Autodesk
Autodesk
El estado se ha cambiado a: Implemented

Hi Everyone,

 

With the Revit 2019 release, we added a much more robust warning when a user deletes a level.  This warning reports all the elements that will also be affected.  We also changed the default of this warning so that it is "cancel" and not "ok" - hopefully, making it harder for someone to accidentally delete a level.   We are marking this idea as implemented.  If you have other thoughts or ideas on how we can make this better, please feel free to find another idea to add your thoughts to, or submit a new idea.  We want to hear your feedback. 

 

Thanks, 

The Factory 

Advisor
Advisor

Now (in Revit 2019) at least we get a warning dialog (with element IDs) that says what will be DELETED, but it took me a while to realize that it doesn't tell you about things that loose Work Plane association (like Structural Framing). It would be great if we not only got notified (of BOTH) but had an easy way to choose replacement Level(s) - instead of having to go through each one manually using IDs.

Anonymous

Revisiting this thread.  Revit should treat deleted levels the same way as deleted host elements in a linked model.  Just let whatever the item is become unassociated with that level and throw a warning.  

 

If you have a wall for instance that's bottom constraint is this level, when the level is deleted just take off that base constraint and leave it "unassociated" or "14FT above the level below" or whatever.

 

If you have a model item hosted to the level (placed on the level itself)...just leave it floating there.

 

Revit really should work to get better at "fixing" and "reassigning" hosting. 

 

As an MEP constantly working with linked models, hosting is a nightmare...especially if your architects working ahead of you delete and replace hosting elements rather than just changing their type...

Anonymous

Has there been a solution for this yet? Ideate is good at informing you with WHAT will be deleted but im still not sure if there is a proper way to go about removing or re associating elements onto different levels. What about views? Can I reassign views to a different level so those are kept?

 

My issue is I have a MEP model with aligned Arch views. But the Arch has combined  / deleted some levels. So In order to remove those duplicates I currently have, I need to delete some levels and reassign some elements & views to a new level.

 

Example below: The Arch updated the levels by combining Level 02 & P4 whereas I currently have mine separated.

 

image.png

Advisor
Advisor

@Anonymous Nope. Still no "solution", although at least there's a workaround now:

  1. upgrade the project to 2019 (if it's not already)
  2. delete the level & export the warnings (with all the element IDs of what's associated)
  3. go back to the original version (or undo the delete) and manually change every element before deleting the Level for real (TIP: if there were a lot of elements, you may want to repeat step 1 first to check that you caught everything)
Anonymous

While Ideate and Revit 2019 Warning do help the process, it would be best to automatically rehost the elements on a new level.

 

New users will add a level and start modelling on it and creating views associated with the bad levels. Then when it is discovered late there are 1000s of elements on the levels. Revit does not provide a way to automatically adjust the wall offsets when changing the level references, this is the kind of capabilities we need.

 

When deleting a level, there is a question to be asked:

Is everything staying in place and being re hosted to the new reference level? or is it all going up/down to the new level height?

 

Really, this is a tool that is missing in other scenarios as well. When a wall is modelled on the wrong level, it is painful to fix. You change the level and it moves, there is no way to 'reassociate' without moving, where Revit would calculate the values so that it can change level, but stay in the exact same place.

 

So this is not just about deleting level, but the underlying process of re hosting an element to a new level without changing its location/dimensions.

 

--

 

Another pain point is when users have created views on the wrong level. It is painful to recreate all these views. You create a new view, transfer a view template from one view to the new one and then copy only the 2d elements of the old view onto the new one.

 

If there was an automated way to do this, it would be great. Often what happens is that it'S so annoying and complicated to do this that projects leave bad levels, making it harder for future users to reuse the Revit file for facility management or other advanced uses.

Advisor
Advisor

Even when NOT deleting a Level, there have been many times when I've wanted to change the "Associated Level" of a plan - especially when dealing with Braces, since the Level (not the View Range) affects whether the braces are shown as "below" or "above" the other framing. And there's already an idea for that:

Allow ability to change a view's associated level

The problem with doing it manually is that Linework and Element Overrides can be missed (though we try to avoid them, when we use them we need them).

Anonymous

You're on it Lionel! Autodesk is going to have to start to pay you for cleaning up their forums Emoticono muy feliz

Thanks for the useful input!

Anonymous

For those looking for a soluton to this problem, a user of mine found a less terrible way to delete levels:

(This solution does not deal with the problem of views dissapearing)

 

Using Ideate Explorer, select all the items that are on the level you want to delete. Cut them using the Modify tool. Delete the level and then Paste the items in Place. The items will rehost themselves on the closest level.

Participant
Participant

@Anonymous Thanks for the plug on this. I wrote a blog post on this very issue, describing the process of using Ideate Explorer to safely delete a level and re-host elements to another level. Have a look at it and let me know if it aligns with your workflows

 

https://ideatesoftware.com/blog/ideate-explorer-and-ideateapps-safely-moving-revit-content

 

Sash Kazeminejad

Anonymous

Quick feedback: I showed the link to my user and he still prefers his method (still using your software).

 

He said you method is the same, but more complicated and with queries. I did not look at the video.

Enthusiast
Enthusiast

I second the suggestions from sarsenaultbrassard.

But at a minimum for right now Autodek should fix the warning: Rather than just have a warning that items will be deleted the first warning should be "YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO UNDO THIS OPERATION". 

Please, Autodesk!

 

 

 

 

Anonymous

Facing the same issue being a BIM Manager myself. I took the step and developed a plugin that auto protect levels and offers a rehost too when levels deleting is initiated. It solves most of the hosted dependencies if you choose to auto process the items. if you are keen on solving this issue using third party addin check it out on official Autodesk App Store..

https://apps.autodesk.com/RVT/en/Detail/Index?id=1184586383885420309

Here is what I wrote in its description.

--

Megara Levels SafeGuard solves the irritating issue, where the elements get accidentally deleted by the deletion of associated Levels.

With this APP Users have an extra layer of protection for their levels, and are notified that elements will be lost, Unless they manually unprotected the level.

And more! You have the option to automatically Rehost elements to another level retaining the same elevation but from the new hosting level

--

I'm Keen to hear what do you all think about it after giving it a try. And looking forward to getting feedback about any elements i didn't include in the auto processing engine if I there are any to make the Automatic solution more complete in the future versions.

Anonymous

This is really irritating, here at our company we gave sessions to what are the sources of accidentlynlosing elements and valuable work and included the levels deleting issue ..But whatever you do it is always better to protect than to cry on the split milk later ..revit 2019 took a step forward already but to better suit our needs and to do some auto rehosting I developed a plugin that auto protect levels and offers a rehost too when levels deleting is initiated. It solves most of the hosted dependencies if you choose to auto process the items. if you are keen on solving this issue using third party addin check it out on official Autodesk App Store..

 

https://apps.autodesk.com/RVT/en/Detail/Index?id=1184586383885420309

 

I'm Keen to hear what do you all think about it after giving it a try. And looking forward to getting feedback about any elements i didn't include in the auto processing engine if I there are any to make the Automatic solution more complete in the future versions.

 

 

 

Anonymous

My "Solution" has been to create a Multi-Category schedule (sort by Level/Category/Family & Type, & unchecked Itemize button) to find elements on a level I want to modify, then reassign by selecting Row (to select elements), highlight a View, then in Properties Palette, select to swap level....or Copy to Clipboard & delete then Paste to Selected Level.

El estado se ha cambiado a: Gathering Support

Congratulations! We are updating this thread to Gathering Support. We are continuing to evaluate where this request falls into our roadmap and will provide an update when we have made a decision. 

 

The Factory

Advisor
Advisor

Why did the moderator combine two different ideas again?

Advisor
Advisor

@kimberly_fuhrman-jones Does Autodesk read these posts???

 

- I don't see the point in combining these ideas when they are not the same...

 

- The status is marked as implimented... It isn't implimented, my original post asked for the ability to reassign objects, what the point of a message telling you that 4000 objects will be deleted - its no help to the user.

 

Simply combining an idea with 600+ votes outstanding for 4 years with a newer one with fewer votes and marked as 'Implimented' is not the way to listen to your users.

 

Disappointed.

@Kevin.Bell  Thank you for your feedback. I have forwarded this thread to our product team for review.

Ok, hopefully we are in agreement that the initial idea (again, per the product team) "the warning", was Implemented. However, you are correct in that the secondary Idea should stand on its own (I goofed. We do read the Ideas, but I am also human, and *gasp* make mistakes. I am humbled.) To resolve this, and continue to move this Idea forward, I will re-open the thread by moving it to Gathering Support, and re-title the thread to make it clear that the Idea is about re-hosting elements when a Level is deleted. This way the Kudos will stay and continue from here.

 

I certainly appreciate constructive feedback and will take this into consideration for future posts. Thank you for your patience as we strive to improve the Ideas forum.

 

-Kimberly

El estado se ha cambiado a: Gathering Support
 
Advisor
Advisor

@kimberly_fuhrman-jones Thanks for doing that. Sorry if my comments were overly harsh.

@Kevin.Bell  You're welcome! Looking forward to hearing more feedback from our Community!

Anonymous

Hello @kimberly_fuhrman-jones ,

 

Much appreciate that Autodesk is making progress on this request. But one thing I want to make sure will be addressed is not only reassigning the hosted element to a new level, but making sure the element does not move - making sure it retains it's absolute elevation, even though the new host level is at a different elevation.

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Maybe even better, when you are about to delete a level, a window pops up with the warning that some elements are about to be deleted, and an overview of all those elements with the possibility to choose a new host level.

Contributor
Contributor

Currently if you have a lot of levels (for example overlapping or close together) and you want to delete one, you will delete all of the associated elements with that level upon doing so. To work around this issue one must use Dynamo.forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-mep-forum/moving-levels-without-moving-associated-elements/m-p/9623344#...   

 

A seemingly simple solution to this problem would be to have a button/option to "re-assign elements to new level" in the warning box. This way, instead of using Dynamo to disassociate the element from the level and then reassign, OR accidentally deleting tons of elements, all data is maintained and anyone (including people who do not use Dynamo) can delete their unwanted levels. 

 

I know that if the levels were too vastly different, there would be errors. That is to be expected. But if the levels were for example on top of one another, or very close, the element locations shouldn't change and there shouldn't be errors. 

 

Thanks for your consideration, 

HR

Advisor
Advisor

I think some additional options could be helpful for this. Perhaps it asks if you want to keep the elements at the same offset from the new level, or if you want to keep them at the same overall elevation, and change the offset value so they are now associated to the new level but do not actually move.

 

Example: you have two levels with a 1' difference and want to delete the upper level. An element is associated to the upper level with an offset of 4'.

 

Select to keep the same offset value -> the element drops 1' when the upper level is deleted, keeping its 4' offset but from its new associated level.

 

Select to keep the same overall elevation -> The element stays in its same location but the offset value is changed to 5' in order to compensate for its new associated level being 1' lower.

 

This would allow the new functionality to work better in a wider range of scenarios.

Participant
Participant

Both of these are really great ideas. I've run into this a number of times and it's so tedious to find and reassign every single affected element in a project.

Collaborator
Collaborator

This idea is already out there from 2017.  https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/ability-to-rehost-elements-before-deleting-a-level/idi-p/...

 

@sasha.crotty @kimberly_fuhrman-jones  This is a duplicate and should be merged with the original.

Explorer
Explorer

There should be an option like add merge levels where it is moving the elements into the selected level by computing the distances and adding the difference to the elements (Without breaking anything so the elements will stay as they are in the 3D Model). Just like the merging layers like in Autocad. I would love that.

Participant
Participant

It is still rather hopeless in 2024, as model-in-place sub-elements IDs are impossible to locate. So I'm stuck with a level I don't want, even though I have changed the association of all elements I can access through Dynamo.

Explorer
Explorer

@lionel.kai 

 

Hello from 2024 and a happy new year.  

 

  1. upgrade the project to 2019 (if it's not already)
  2. delete the level & export the warnings (with all the element IDs of what's associated)
  3. go back to the original version (or undo the delete) and manually change every element before deleting the Level for real (TIP: if there were a lot of elements, you may want to repeat step 1 first to check that you caught everything)
  4. OR ideate software currently listed at 500 USD for 1 seat annually or 1000 USD for 5