Nesting of finished programs

[milan_vasic]

We have a vacuum table and mill there various parts.

I took a look at the nesting utilities but they don't help me here.
You can only nest and then program the parts.

This is good for laser cutting, but not for milling.

1. the nesting of milled parts is different from laser cutting.
You have parts with entrances and exits because they are open pockets. Therefore the distance between the parts is not always the same everywhere. The distance per part must be calculated on the cutting path.

2. sometime you have programmed the part and it is ordered again. Now I have to nest several ready-made programs. You don't want to redo 30 operations.

For the whole vacuum machining we currently use a different CAM because we have no solution for this in Inventor HSM.

Is that possible in Inventor HSM? Is there a quick way to nest finished programs? Possibly also manually.
I tried but didn't find a good way.

[ArjanDijk]

You can place multiple parts in an assembly, you can also use pattern tools for nesting multiple instances of the same part. Problems will come up when you want to apply minimum toolchanges and you have multiple different parts and some are patterned. 

Can you show an example of what you want? The current nesting tools will not help you

[milan_vasic]

Here is an example.

The first part.

At the bottom left I milled the first part for testing and positioned it manually. Then all parts were nested into the rest. Therefore, the material is not a whole plate.

and here the third part

The first part has already been manufactured for testing. Now it's nested to save material.
Between the parts I now have space for other parts made of the same material (20 mm aluminium).
I take the other parts that have been programmed and manufactured before and have them nested in the same material.

Each part is still stored as a separate program. The parts can later be nested with completely different parts. Therefore, each part should have its own program. The parts are also for different customers. They don't always order together.
Nesting is calculated on the programmed cutter paths. Of course, you can also set additional distances from part to part or from the material edge. It is also possible to set that the distances between the parts are calculated on the cutter center path or on the cutter outer edge.
I can also delete a part that has been nested, add one manually, rotate, etc., while always keeping the previously defined distances.

When I change a tool that affects the outer contour, it is simply nested again.

I know that HSM (unfortunately) does not have all these options.
Sometimes it is also not so complicated parts. I have a part and that has a large cutout in the middle, say a circle with a diameter of 500 mm.
For example, I would mill the large part in HSM because I find the milling strategy better and then insert and mill other parts that were already programmed earlier in HSM into the cutout.

So simply load an existing program into another existing program and position it in the cutout would be enough.

I don't want to redefine the zero point any more. If the zero point is at the bottom left, then it is for all parts until I have everything finished. At least that's the way it is in the other CAM.

[jeff.pek]

This is something that gets requested from time to time. There are 2 open IdeaStation requests for the same thing:

 https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-ideas/importing-a-programed-part-into-assembly/idi-p/6600792

 https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-ideas/saving-programs-to-parts-when-written-in-an-assembly-and-vi...

Please feel free to vote these up and/or comment on them.

Thanks,

  Jeff

[ArjanDijk]

@jeff.pek. I think you are oversimplifying the problem.

Nesting milling parts has a few major problems at the moment that are not being fixed:

1. As you said: bringing over toolpath from part to assembly
2. Efficiently reordering tools in nested patterns
3. Calculation of nested part in sheet material (only possible for laser/waterjet parts atm)
4. Controlling leadins/leadout of operation so they don't damage the product lying close by (try this with adaptive)
5. Making room for other toolpaths in the sheet (i had to do the logo in the image below and needed 2 big contour passes around the product to prevent 3D toolpaths from rapid into stock)

Autodesk is collaborating with Datron CNC machines and most of their customers use their machines like this. If even one of the issues mentioned above would be fixed, it would be real timesaver.

[jeff.pek]

Fair points, Arjan. It wasn't clear whether OP was looking for all of those things, or only for #1.

  Jeff

[ArjanDijk]

@jeff.pek.

I think the OP wants a lot taken into account that would be really hard to accomplish in HSM in its current form. I read #3 and #4. I do not really see a workflow where you combine programs into one, but don't output the operations at the same time, because you need the material for a different customer later on. I think smart stock material combined with nesting would make more sense.

Can you tell me whats the reason that bringing over toolpath from part to assembly is not in the product? Is it technically a big challenge? I like to understand.

[jeff.pek]

Hi Arjan -

We just haven't prioritized doing it. It probably wouldn't be that hard to simply get the toolpaths in -- there might, though be more tricky issues of "ownership" of the toolpath data, potential in-place editing (e.g., editing of parts in an assembly), as well as the issues you raise.

Jeff

[milan_vasic]

@jeff.pek @ArjanDijk

I think another solution we have in MasterCam would be very good for HSM.

You have a material library. That's where you can put the rest of the material.
If you need the remaining material again at some point you can load it from the library.
We always include the date and thickness in the name of the material in the library. We then write this on the material on it to always quickly find the right material for the entry in the library.
When I load the material and nest something new I have the possibility to decide if it overwrites the existing entry in the library or if the remaining material stays and I want to have a new remnant.

The remaining material is then always loaded from the library with the same zero point.

If I now want to position my new part, I can have it automatically placed in a suitable position in the rest material. There is an option called geometry nesting. There are of course some options how you want to position it.

The problem in HSM is that when I have removed the lower half of the material I can no longer click on the bottom left corner to select it as the zero point because this material is milled away. Even if I were always exporting the rest of the material.

You could also create a residual material library.
Here you could set a point to the original zero point when saving. This can also be stored as an Inventor file in the library.
If someone selects the material from the library, the material is automatically loaded as a solid with a point, a setup is created and the point is selected as a zero point with the same orientation as before.

That would have 2 advantages.

If you want to mill something from the second side, you don't always have to export the remaining material as STL to load it back in and then turn it into a solid. You could just put it into the library and when you select it you will automatically get a second setup with all settings.

If you want to nest something you would have at least the remaining material. That way you could position it somehow by hand.

The option with geometry nesting would of course also be perfect 🙂

[ArjanDijk]

Hi Milan,

I don't think Autodesk will copy Mastercam, but if you have a simple sugggestion that would improven the current workflow, maybe that is something to start from.

At this moment I don't see what you propose will fit in HSM