Inventor CAM 2020 instead of Inventor HSM 2020 (Namechange)

[Knaap]

Can the team please elaborate on this?

The HSM part is now gone and moved into the new name, Inventor CAM...

Now there is a bigger gap with HSMworks as well, they don't share anything in the name anymore.

Why was this decided on? 

Which in my/our eyes is very weird ... Because:

InventorCAM is a competing CAM system/plugin that is also a certified partner of autodesk, doesn't sound fair to cross them like that.

For the people that don't know this, SolidCAM is the same competing plugin as InventorCAM but for Solidworks. 

Solidcam/InventorCAM are known names in the CAM world and are using this name for ages now, so using the same name as them is super confusing for (new)people looking up HSM stuff on the internet and will possibly push them into SolidCam/InventorCAM's arms.

Also, what's up with HSM/CAM anyways? 

Bugs, lack of fixes, lack of usefull updates, seemingly slowing down improvements and a constant push to Fusion(CAM?)....

What can we expect from HSM in the forseeable future? Is it true that we will be pushed/forced into Fusion to get improvements?

Greetings, a HSM user.

(I don't have a personal account)

[garin]

Good question on the naming. I wrote a blog post that has some of the rational behind the name change for CAM and other products in the collection. 

https://blogs.autodesk.com/inventor/2019/04/04/whats-new-in-the-product-design-and-manufacturing-col...

Prior to our 2020 product launch, each of the collection products had their own brand/identity (HSM, Nastran InCAD, Tolerance Analysis and Nesting Utility). There was a lot of confusion what was an add-in to Inventor and a vast majority of our customers didn't know they even had CAM tools available to them as they weren't aware of the HSM brand. To help customers know what was an add-in to Inventor we have named each collection add-in with Inventor  then the primary function of the add-in. We realize for long time HSM customers it may be a big change although the vast majority of Inventor users are not using HSM/Inventor CAM today and we would like to raise awareness to our integrated solution as well as grow the product over time. 

That goes into your next question around development on CAM. Inventor CAM and Manufacturing environment in Fusion 360 are built from the same code and most of the time functionality is added to both products in their next release. I am a Product Manager for Inventor and many of our customers count on the CAM tools from the Collection and we work with the CAM team to expand those tools for Inventor. One area we are working with the CAM team on is to modernize the tool library in Inventor to make it more like the Fusion 360 tool library. 

[lenny_1962]

for one I am glade for the change

now there will be no confusion on what software when a question is asked, "like in HSM I cannot get 2D Contour to work", then everyone needs to ask which HSM, HSMWorks or Inventor HSM.

now we'll have HSM = Works, CAM = Inventor and well just Fusion 360, FINALLY....

yes the whole SolidCAM thing maybe confusing but Autodesk links come up first if you do a search for Inventor CAM.

[scottmoyse]

@garin please can you update us on when and how Inventor CAM users will get access to the steep & shallow toolpath Fusion 360 users are getting access to in the extra cost Advanced Manufacturing Extension (bearing in mind Inventor CAM users already pay significantly more than Fusion 360 users do)? Inventor CAM's 3D surfacing toolpaths have a number of limitations which Inventor CAM users have been waiting patiently to be fixed for half a decade. Steep & Shallow goes a long way towards solving those.... also it opens up the opportunity for Inventor CAM to be legitimately tagged as 5-axis CAM software. Currently it's great at 3+2 5-axis.... but not what most CAM people think of when they see 5-axis CAM in marketing material.

I've asked these questions a few times now, but as of yet haven't been able to get an answer. I'm pushing for one, and raising it here, because I'm being pressed for answers at my end as well. 

[scottmoyse]

---

@garin wrote:

Good question on the naming. I wrote a blog post that has some of the rational behind the name change for CAM and other products in the collection. 

https://blogs.autodesk.com/inventor/2019/04/04/whats-new-in-the-product-design-and-manufacturing-col...

Prior to our 2020 product launch, each of the collection products had their own brand/identity (HSM, Nastran InCAD, Tolerance Analysis and Nesting Utility). There was a lot of confusion what was an add-in to Inventor and a vast majority of our customers didn't know they even had CAM tools available to them as they weren't aware of the HSM brand. To help customers know what was an add-in to Inventor we have named each collection add-in with Inventor  then the primary function of the add-in. We realize for long time HSM customers it may be a big change although the vast majority of Inventor users are not using HSM/Inventor CAM today and we would like to raise awareness to our integrated solution as well as grow the product over time. 

---

I understand where you are coming from, even though I don't agree with it for a number of reasons... it is what it is. But I feel a little confused about the NASTRAN naming convention, in the context of the justification. HSM was a brand with respect, NASTRAN is as well. Most Inventor users have no idea what NASTRAN is... but have certainly heard of FEA before. Why wasn't that called Inventor FEA, thereby ditching the NASTRAN brand? What's done is done, rightly or wrongly... I just find it a bit inconsistent.

[garin]

Hey Scott,

We plan to deliver the Steep & Shallow toolpath as an extension to the Fusion experience.  The CAM feedback community is a great resource to see what we are investing in for Inventor as well as Fusion 360 and a great place to engage with the CAM team as they are very active there. It's also a great place to add and vote for ideas that would help CAM customers with their day to day work. 

CAM Forums

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm/ct-p/213

CAM Idea Forum

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-ideas/idb-p/231

[whackinit]

"---- We plan to deliver the Steep & Shallow toolpath as an extension to the Fusion experience. ----"

Garin,

Does your statement imply that Fusion is headed toward a "pay for the individual features you will need" in the future?  No longer a "one price covers all" ?

[Bug.Robotics]

"---- We plan to deliver the Steep & Shallow toolpath as an extension to the Fusion experience. ----"

Well now, this is a surprise.  I don't mind paying whatever Autodesk needs to be profitable (within reason) but the habit of constantly moving the goalpost and the changes of direction prevents me from associating my business, in any significant way, with Fusion 360.   

[srinath.jonnalagadda]

Hello @whackinit and @Bug.Robotics -

Let there be no doubt. There is no change in Fusion 360's commitment to deliver unprecedented out-of-box productivity for individuals and teams. This means, what is currently available in Fusion 360 will continue to be available via the Collection or as a subscription ($495/yr). 

As we continue to deliver more specialized functionality or additional cloud-compute based capabilities in Fusion 360, these will appear as on-demand or pay-as-you go services. 

You see this already with Generative Design and Nastran cloud solvers for non-linear FEA. These services require cloud credits on a per job basis.

As we bring new Manufacturing capabilities such as steep & shallow, inspection, drill wizard, we will deliver these as a pay-as-you-go Manufacturing Extension for Fusion 360. Think of the Extension as bundle of functionality that can be unlocked for a set price on a month-by-month basis (125 cloud credits) or a full year (1500 cloud credits). 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

-srinath

[whackinit]

"----- As we bring new Manufacturing capabilities such as steep & shallow, inspection, drill wizard, we will deliver these as a pay-as-you-go Manufacturing Extension for Fusion 360. Think of the Extension as bundle of functionality that can be unlocked for a set price on a month-by-month basis (125 cloud credits) or a full year (1500 cloud credits). -----"

For me this is a combination of "totally acceptable" and "disappointing".

I would and will fully expect to pay ("cloud credits" really means payment, correct?) for offloading "heavy" tasks onto Autodesk's cloud computing power.  That is completely understandable, and nobody that thinks it through would (or should) object to this.

However, it's disappointing to hear that AD will be "charging" for additional functionality on the CAM side (which is undoubtedly handled on our local machines).  Many of us have been onboard for a number of years, (I started paying the full amount when I first started using Fusion, even though I'm retired and use it mostly for my own/hobby work).  Like many of us that have been using it for a good while, I feel that "we" contribute (not insignificantly) as a global tech-support resource, as well as a sales/promotion resource. (I have moved many people onto Fusion 360 in the last couple of years -- all paying customers).

If my understanding of your statement is correct, I would politely encourage Autodesk to consider the value that the global community provides in the way of ongoing sales and unpaid tech support... and weigh that against moving to a "pay for more features" model.

Quite sincerely,

PM

[Lonnie.Cady]

---

@srinath.jonnalagadda wrote:

Hello @whackinit and @Bug.Robotics -

Let there be no doubt. There is no change in Fusion 360's commitment to deliver unprecedented out-of-box productivity for individuals and teams. This means, what is currently available in Fusion 360 will continue to be available via the Collection or as a subscription ($495/yr). 

As we continue to deliver more specialized functionality or additional cloud-compute based capabilities in Fusion 360, these will appear as on-demand or pay-as-you go services. 

You see this already with Generative Design and Nastran cloud solvers for non-linear FEA. These services require cloud credits on a per job basis.

As we bring new Manufacturing capabilities such as steep & shallow, inspection, drill wizard, we will deliver these as a pay-as-you-go Manufacturing Extension for Fusion 360. Think of the Extension as bundle of functionality that can be unlocked for a set price on a month-by-month basis (125 cloud credits) or a full year (1500 cloud credits). 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

-srinath

---

So we get all current functionality according to your statement.  Which leaves ADSK open to basically consider all new functionality advanced and charge for it on a pay as you go basis.  So the $495/yr will be for what file storage??? Sounds a little steep for just that.  Or maybe it can be used to subsidize the development of some other pay as you go features.

[scottmoyse]

This thread is about Inventor HSM / CAM not Fusion 360. The deal F360 users get compared to Inventor HSM / CAM users is astronomically good... Whichever way you try to cut it.

Kind Regards
Scott Moyse
Manufacturing Technical Specialist Autodesk Expert Elite
P: +64 9 302 4028 M: +64 21 055 7775
scott.m@cadpro.co.nz

CADPRO Systems Ltd
Auckland - 527b Rosebank Road, Avondale Auckland
Christchurch - Unit 3, Kendal Avenue, Burnside
New Zealand

[Lonnie.Cady]

---

@scottmoyse wrote:
This thread is about Inventor HSM / CAM not Fusion 360. The deal F360 users get compared to Inventor HSM / CAM users is astronomically good... Whichever way you try to cut it.

Kind Regards
Scott Moyse
Manufacturing Technical Specialist Autodesk Expert Elite
P: +64 9 302 4028 M: +64 21 055 7775
scott.m@cadpro.co.nz

CADPRO Systems Ltd
Auckland - 527b Rosebank Road, Avondale Auckland
Christchurch - Unit 3, Kendal Avenue, Burnside
New Zealand

---

Has nothing to do with value and everything to do with "pick a business model and stick with it" .  Then anyone who plans to operate a business for more than a year can make a sound decision on which horse to hitch their wagon to.

Be up front about your plans.  First we had fusion, then Fusion standard and Fusion Ultimate so it was not so confusing, now paid extensions.   I can see it now, in a short while the extensions will not sell like that thought and they will get rolled into Fusion Ultimate and a price increase and we will hear it was too confusion trying to provide support since everyone had diffrent functionality.

#groundhogday

[Bug.Robotics]

---

@srinath.jonnalagadda wrote:

Hello @whackinit and @Bug.Robotics -

Let there be no doubt. There is no change in Fusion 360's commitment to deliver unprecedented out-of-box productivity for individuals and teams. This means, what is currently available in Fusion 360 will continue to be available via the Collection or as a subscription ($495/yr). 

As we continue to deliver more specialized functionality or additional cloud-compute based capabilities in Fusion 360, these will appear as on-demand or pay-as-you go services. 

You see this already with Generative Design and Nastran cloud solvers for non-linear FEA. These services require cloud credits on a per job basis.

As we bring new Manufacturing capabilities such as steep & shallow, inspection, drill wizard, we will deliver these as a pay-as-you-go Manufacturing Extension for Fusion 360. Think of the Extension as bundle of functionality that can be unlocked for a set price on a month-by-month basis (125 cloud credits) or a full year (1500 cloud credits). 

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

-srinath

---

There is significant doubt though srinath, bolstered by the multitude of changes that Fusion has been through in just the last few years.  Price hikes and decreases, functionality differences, name changes and now additional software that is included in the subscription are some of the changes that are pretty recent. 

[srinath.jonnalagadda]

No argument on the series of changes for Fusion 360. The core nugget of what I said is this -

Irrespective of what changes we made and will make in the future, we will (have) stay(ed) true to our promise of providing unprecedented value to the mainstream  CAD/CAM/CAE... professional

It is indisputable that the equivalent value of what we deliver for $495 is multiple tens of thousands of $. 

Now to the other aspect of what is in the future for Fusion 360's business model. I will not get into specifics because it will be crystal ball gazing. Instead, let me give you guys a sense of our thinking...

Corner stone of our thinking is the belief in subscription business model. Subscription business model lines up with our philosophy of broadening access to best-in-class software - with lower upfront costs and flexible terms. Spelling this out... we will continue to broaden and mature workflows that take you from concept-to-physical product via the subscription business model. 

• Side bar: I do not mean to stir a debate on economics of perpetual vs. subscription. Happy to debate via DM. Before we go down this rabbit hole...here is some food for thought.  If you look at the business model for new startups (especially in software), I bet you will not find a single one that is on perpetual

Building on the point above. We also believe the future of broad access is subscription + consumption. Apply the 80/20 rule here  - not literally but figuratively ;). As we bring in specialized functionality that is relevant to a few OR  new functionality that incurs recurring cloud costs, we will make this pay-as-you-go. Just like with subscription business model - there are plenty of data points that validate this future. Look at Amazon, Adobe, Apple, Amazon, Peloton bikes etc. 

When there is a change to packaging, it is natural to assume that it is the big bad corporation looking to fleece. All I ask is for you to pause and test your skepticism with the history of Fusion 360.  

Remember our core tenet - unprecedented value.

These are times of incredible opportunity for innovation - both in terms of technology and experience. Since the time we created Fusion 360, we have experimented on both fronts in order to deliver unprecedented value. And we will not stop. We are eager to explore new ways of delivering value to you guys with disruptive tech like Generative Design and new experiences like Consumption.

Like with every exploration, some paths will stick and some will, lets just say, become "what were we thinking" ;). You could ask, why not stick to the tried and tested. The downside of sticking to the familiar is that we might not be able to continue this journey with you guys. In this fast paced time of change, complacency = new startup surprising us with something we have not thought of.  

[whackinit]

Srinath,

Thank you for jumping back in (to the lion's den?) and explaining your own thoughts as well as giving is a bit of insight into Autodesk's long-term vision/plans.

It's appreciated.

PM

[Lonnie.Cady]

@srinath.jonnalagadda 

So if I read this correctly we should be prepared for more changes not just in packaging, but in pricing and paid extensions while ADSK explores what works and what does not.

Is that really the sales pitch to instill confidence for selling a product that people store sensitive IP in, and want to access for years to come.

Thanks for the insight!!

[scottmoyse]

where do Inventor CAM users stand with accessing these new CAM features?

Kind Regards
Scott Moyse
Manufacturing Technical Specialist Autodesk Expert Elite
P: +64 9 302 4028 M: +64 21 055 7775
scott.m@cadpro.co.nz

CADPRO Systems Ltd
Auckland - 527b Rosebank Road, Avondale Auckland
Christchurch - Unit 3, Kendal Avenue, Burnside
New Zealand

[srinath.jonnalagadda]

Hello @Lonnie.Cady -

Not to worry. We are intentional about striking a balance between stay-the-course and agility. By this I mean, you can expect the subscription model to be a stable/steady foundation on which we add new workflows. We will continue to enhance and mature the workflows in the subscription offer. Layered on top of the subscription offer will be new workflows delivered as consumption. 

Take Generative Design as an example. It does not take away anything from your current modeling or engineering workflows. And you incur an additional cost only if you choose to use it. Similarly with the Extension, it will not take away anything from your current Modeling or CAM workflows. 

Cheers,

-srinath

[srinath.jonnalagadda]

Hello @scottmoyse  -

Inventor users will have to purchase the Extension to access the new features.

Cheers,

-srinath