Gildemeister structure post?

[milan_vasic]

Is it possible to program a post for the "Gildemeister structure" or does anyone know a distribution partner who has such a post?

This would be really good for all DMG machines with several spindles and turrets.

[milan_vasic]

To the Post experts 🙂

Do any of you know the DMG (Gildemeister) structure?
The structure was developed by Gildemeister, but could it be used on all machines with Siemens control?

They are only main programs per channel and subprograms that are loaded.

If this were possible on every machine, couldn't we use it as a basis for the Siemens Mill-Turn Post? All you have to do is adjust the variables for your machine.

The structure is really great and is supported by all DMG machines of the last 20 years. Of course, it is also available in the new machines.
The special thing is that you can start the program from any operation without any problems. You can also control the channels individually etc.

I know 3 CAM systems that post in this structure.

The question is can you let HSM automatically post one file per operation?
Even better it would be one file per folder then you could also group operations.

The main programs never change, you only have to have one entry per operation and in the variable file you only have to enter the size of the finished part at a certain Point.

You could also omit everything and just modify the Siemens Post so that it leaves out single files for the operations (*.SPF)

That would be enough for a start. You could then take the structure and take only the individual subroutines from HSM and quickly enter the variables for the part on the machine.
I think this post would be easier to write than the current Siemens Mill Turn which is still in beta?

Here's a little picture of the structure. It's only in German.

As an attachment here is a program in the structure. It doesn't matter how and what is produced there - it's all about the structure.

Can this be run on all machines with Siemens controls? Of course you have to exchange the few DMG cycles with those of your manufacturer but the rest would not be a problem?

[ArjanDijk]

Hi @milan_vasic. I see a lot of improvement suggestions and post requests from you on the forum. I don't know where you live, but there might be a HSM reseller/expert living close to you where you can discuss with how you want to work and how you want to use HSM. He can make the time for you and take all your questions at once and help you define a way of working where you can let HSM in its current state really shine.

 can imagine that this can give you much more clarity then all the bits and pieces of comment you get heren on the forum.

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

Personally I'm still pretty much confused to how this would help the user.

As I feel it makes it more complicated than less.

And newer controls all have ways to start half way through the program with reading all that happened previously.

So if you could explain how this makes it easier for the user I'm really curious, because I just don't see it and be happy to find out what I'm missing out on.

[milan_vasic]

That's what I thought at first until I worked with it for a while.

If you work directly at the machine, you simply copy the whole structure and only change the contents of the files from L1101 and further for channel 1 and L2101 and further for channel 2.

The files are synchronized in the main program 1000 and 2000 by If queries.

You don't really have to change anything except that you need several synchronization points.

There are 9 synchronization points in the attached program.

If I don't need that many I simply delete it for a simple program.

RG703 and RG704 are status variables for the spindle status.

As soon as he has finished program L1101, there is 101 etc. Exactly the same for the other channel.

In the machine there is a mask where you can see the status of the program. You can see this variable and the value. If I cancel the program I can also change these numbers.

If I want to execute the operation from subroutine L1108, I simply enter 108 there. The controller calculates nothing, it just starts there and it always fits.

If you enter the status 0, 1 and 2 in the variable, you control whether the spindle is empty, raw material clamped or the part is finished.

With 99 you can stop editing on one page.

Example. On the left spindle I have a part that is broken. I'm stopping the program. I set the variable to Raw material status. There is a finished part on the counter spindle. This already indicates the finished part status. I'm starting the program. The machine automatically makes a cut-off and cuts off the defective part and then automatically carries out only the operations on the left spindle. As soon as the left spindle is finished, the part is transferred and then both sides run synchronously again.

When the main spindle is finished with the last part and only the second side has to be machined, I can simply stop. Enter status 99 on the main spindle. Then the part is handed over and finished on the counter spindle. However, no new part is started from the main spindle.

Whenever a new material bar is fetched, the program automatically makes a cut-off at the tip as this is usually ground.

All the variables are available in program L1000. If I want to reschedule something, I'll do it here. If I want to leave the part more out of the spindle, the depth of the transfer to the counter spindle, the blank diameter, finished part length etc. everything is set here.

For example, if I want my material to look more out of the spindle, I just have to change the variable here.

The turret automatically moves with the stop to the new position to fetch the material and moves together with the material to the end position. If the material is a new bar, it is automatically cut off at the front, if not, then not and the program starts.

If the material bars are ground more this time I can increase the cutting-off with a variable.

If I want to run the program on another machine because this machine is busy and the other one has a different clamping system I just have to change the length for the variable of the clamping system and everything runs.

I don't have to program or change anything in the existing program. You only need the individual operations in individual files once. Everything else can be changed using the variable.

There are many files, but you always copy them just because all the presets are already there. You always change only the operation files and a few variables the rest always stays as it is you just need the other files in the same folder.

If you want to unload and clamp manually, this is also no problem. You only have to press one button on the control. The lines "/" and "/7" are responsible for this.

These are just a few advantages. I was looking for an English documentation but couldn't find anything. Everything I have is in German and from DMG.

Here a link to DMG, there is just not so much.

https://nl.dmgmori.com/products/digitization/production/technology-cycles/control-of-program-status

The structure is really good, you can work with it much faster and make fewer mistakes.

You find them complicated at first sight and bad if you have never worked with them before. That's what I thought at first.

At the moment the operations can be done in HSM. Select the groups I want to synchronize and manually post as L1101 and so on. Just drop it into the structure folder and change the variables manually. It's just a little annoying.

EdgeCam, EspritCam and DMG's own programmer can completely let out the structure.

@ArjanDijk Of course I have already asked a HSM sales partner who is still checking it. I don't know if he's gonna be able to do this or not yet.

I just wanted to share it with the community, maybe it is interesting for others and we do something for everyone.

Is that what the community is for? Sometimes someone writes something unimportant sometimes something interesting. I find it more interesting to hear several opinions, not just those of a sales partner.

With all the other things I've requested here, a reseller can't help me.
If a function is not available, what should it do?

I can't even be sure if he takes the proposal seriously and forwards it to development at all. Here you have the chance that others will read it and if it interests enough people it's good and if not it's ok.

[AchimN]

Do you have a description or a manual from DMG about this? If so, can you please share it?

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

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@AchimN wrote:

Do you have a description or a manual from DMG about this? If so, can you please share it?

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@milan_vasic No problem if it's German, because @AchimN is that too.

[milan_vasic]

@AchimN I don't have so many descriptions I can share with you.

Some documents you can only get from DMG if you have a training for structure programming. You can't buy the documents like that and you are not allowed to share the training documents online.

But since Autodesk is a partner of DMG, especially with FeatureCam you'll have better connections and can get a more detailed description. The other CAM systems that can post the structure have certainly also received documentation from DMG.

What I can share with you I have added.
The programming description is for a CTX and from point 2.6 (page 33) it's especially about the structure. Unfortunately there is not so much detail to develop a post.

I already talked to a HSM distributor and suggested the following procedure. They thought it would be feasible.

• For the left spindle a setup and for the right spindle a second setup.
• We create a folder and insert all operations up to the first Wait mark. The folder gets a name, say 01.
• Then we make a second folder and there all operations up to second Wait mark and that is called 02 and so on.
• If I want to work with both turrets at the same time on one spindle we use a manual command between two operations in the same folder.

• In the second setup for the second spindle we do the same.
• Now the post always synchronizes the waitmarks of channel 1 and 2. The condition is that the folder name is the same.

So I can synchronize all operations just like on the machine.

1. At the end I get one file per channel.
2. The individual operation groups (This corresponds to a folder) in each case in a file.
3. The variables (zero point, model length etc.) are written from the setup and the transfer operations into the variable file.

This is the concept in a nutshell.

[ArjanDijk]

Ahh, now I get it, at first I did not understand you were talking about a multitask post. For that you indeed need some adjustments. Hope @AchimN

[rhdfmail]

As I'm fiddling around with a similar machine (Gildemeister MF twin 65) I've also questioned the usefullness in this structure. I think it might be userfriendly if you program manually  and then just have to edit one subprogram instead of one large program.

With modern camsoftware whitout ability to do multichanel(as fusion360) .. not so much 😉

[rhdfmail]

Any recommendation for which of the currently available postprocessors (siemens turning and siemens mill-turn) That is most suitable for modifying to be able to run  a Gildemeister MF 65 Twin with a sinumeric 840D.

It seems that the mill-turn post has more features that I can modify for my needs

[milan_vasic]

Together with a partner we are currently creating a post for our Twin 42 with the Gildemeister structure.

Someone who hasn't worked with the structure yet won't understand.
I also didn't understand it at the beginning when we got the machine.

A structure for multitask operations is very good. That's why some cam systems support exactly this structure. This structure is offered as an extra by DMG. Nobody pays an extra that brings no advantages 🙂

If you want to have a normal post that does not support the structure you can take the mill-turn post from siemens. But it is still officially in beta phase.

How it is with fusion360 I don't know. In HSM you can program spindle, counter spindle and several turrets.

[Anonymous]

Hello Milan,

Where you able to create the Gildemeister structure post?

We have DMG CTX Gamma 2000 TC.

[Anonymous]

For Gildemeister structure —> you need DMG Programmer V5.

[hsmtec-MatthiasWolf]

It is not necessary to have the DMF Programmer. It is also possible to create the structure with the postprocessor.

[rhdfmail]

Thats basicly what this thread was about 😉
The question is how to do it as efficient as possible (minimum manual edits)