Show toolpath permanently during editing the operation

[KerimY]

For a cam-programmer it is realy important to play with the options in the operations to get the best setting for the part.

Sometimes you need e.g. 10 times to go in the operation, change a setting and click ok to see the toolpath.

It makes so much easier if i can change a setting, calculate the operation and see the toolpath directly without leaving the edit.

Like the live toolpath in drilling or 2D-Bore.

I think for the other operations (like 3D or 5x) it is nearly impossible to generate a live toolpath but its enough if i can calculate the operation without leaving it. So i can see all options and the toolpath at the same time.

example:

What do you think about it?

[Lonnie.Cady]

It was already brought up in a idea and responded to.

It was determined that if was not a direction that they wanted to go.  So it was archived.  Not sure if is still visible in the ides station so you can see what was actually said.

[Rob_Lockwood]

I actually like that the current workflow encourages you to not sit around and wait for toolpath to calculate. I guess this is a good option, as it could save some clicks.. but generally I hit 'done', start making the next operation while it's calculating, and return to verify or tweak at my convenience. Sticking a calculate button in the operation would seem to encourage hanging out while it calculates, and i'm not sure that's a win.

On the flip side, I do think generating more often, particularly in the background, and only when perf is available, would be good. It would definitely seem like many more operations could be calculated 'live' like bore/drilling are currently, and that does seem like a win.

After all, it's known that when you hit the 'done' button, it's going to start calculating. Why wait until then, provided there's a free core? And if it generates before you click 'done' - I only see benefit from seeing that toolpath prior to closing the operation. Aside from laptop usage, maybe.. I think most of us like seeing processing power leveraged as much as possible.

[Lonnie.Cady]

The real benefit is obviously not for complex tool paths that take significant time to process. @Rob_Lockwood is correct and it would be time better spent to move on and do something else.  However not everyone is doing tool paths that take long times at all to generate. I would think for anything 2d mill or truing would be very useful.  But in reality if they could speed up some of the generation on these simple tool paths they could provide more instant feedback and not have an calculate button.

[KerimY]

Hello guys,

thanks for your feedback!

It gives so much cases to make the calculate and showing tool path during edit usefull.

The first thing is, its optional. You can click "Ok" and work on the next operation or you click "Calculate" and wait for the tool path to check and optimize your process.

I think it gives many people which work "step by step", e.g. beginner or for komplex parts with a lot of operations.

My biggest part has 240 operations, it makes sense to finish up the current operation with the perfect settings before you start with the next.

[Rob_Lockwood]

Right, we get that..

But the point is, on operations where you're willing to wait, you could probably just automatically calculate them as settings are changed. On operations that take longer to calculate, you don't really want to encourage the user to sit there doing nothing while it calculates. 

This is effectively the split that exists now, but I think there's room to push more of the operations into the 'calculate immediately' category. With the exception of 2D adaptive, all of the 2D operations should definitely fit into this category. It seems a single core can typically generate them in a few seconds. It might even be awesome to monitor how long the operation is taking to calculate, and disable automatic generation if it's taking too long. I dunno.

Rob

[Lonnie.Cady]

I'm not so sure how good of a solution that would be.

" It might even be awesome to monitor how long the operation is taking to calculate, and disable automatic generation if it's taking too long. I dunno."

I think that would just cause more confusion.  So it may work on some computers and not others depending on the speed of the calculation.  People will be getting confused as to why one time it worked and the next time it did not.  What is instant feed back for one persons setup may create a lagging nightmare for the next.

I also feel in the end part of it comes down to having a better understanding of the software AND predictable results when a change is made in an operation to eliminate the need to constantly tweak an operation.   I know for me in most 2d operations I rarely have to open and edit.  My lack of experience in the 3d multi axis forces me to tweak more.  The lack of predictive results in turning forces me to tweak the operations.

So maybe part of the issue is figuring out why someone is having to open a operation so many times to get the desired results.

[Rob_Lockwood]

Maybe on the first bit, it probably depends on how well it's communicated to the user when it's generating... It's likely that all the communication necessary is a 'calculating...' text that occurs someplace on the screen. 

Remember, all i'm asking for is that calculation start earlier, provided there is excess compute available. Excess, so the 'lagging nightmare' scenario is non-existent. You're looking at it like a loss, because the toolpath might not show up 'instantly'. The current alternative is that it never has a chance to show up until after the 'done' button is checked and the operation calculates. Which varies infinitely based on the compute available to the user, a concept that confuses nobody.

I definitely agree with the sentiment of the last half, but I think both are important. If we believe there's a path where the system generates everything the way you intend on the first shot, that's obviously a win. If we don't (and I don't..) then providing visual feedback of the end result as early in the process as possible is a win. As early in the process should imply not waiting for someone to click a 'calculate' button. If the compute is there, start the calc. If it's not, it doesn't matter if I press a button to start the calc, it's not generating.

[Lonnie.Cady]

I did not say or imply the current method of clicking the done button was confusing to anyone.  Nor did I say or imply that calculations taking different amounts of time was confusing.

Having the software disable automatic generation based on calculation time would be confusing.  Calculation time is not just based on the computer but also the resources it has available at that time.   So if I edit an operation and one time it auto calculates, then 10 minutes later I make a change like stay down linking and it takes more time to calculate, or the computer has fewer resources free the auto calculate is disabled, then it would be come confusing.

I get what you are saying and I am not seeing it as as a loss.  My concern is the implementation on the UX.  Fusion has some error checking in the operation dialog boxes and it happens so fast at times you can even get the numbers typed in and the error window keeps popping up in the lower right corner and it is annoying.

So if I were to work across the tabs in the operation like HSM wants me to, I would first select my tool then, select the geometry.  At this point the automatic calculation could start.  I have not even set the passes or linking parameters.  If every time I tab to a new field to set the parameters it has to recalculate.  It may be worse than taking a wrong turn with a GPS, recalculating....  recalculating....  recalculating....  recalculating....

I would really be fine with any improvements that would lead to a better UX and the ability to get all operation parameters set with out having to reopen an operation.  If they can make them instant like the drill/bore/thread/face operations that would obviously be my first choice.

[Rob_Lockwood]

True, I agree, having it disable based on calculation time doesn't make sense from a few perspectives; I agree that it would be confusing, but also.. if the compute is there, might as well use it. Probably the only important thing is to make sure you can turn off automatic generation for cases where that compute isn't free (laptops, low performance systems, etc) - I also agree on the Fusion thing. It doesn't make sense to generate automatically with every keystroke, so some work needs to be done there --same as in fusion, some work needs to be done there to error check once a field is complete, rather than with every keystroke.

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

@Rob_Lockwood I believe HSMWorks does only check is the value is valid when you hit enter or move to another field.

That seems like a good deal.

[Lonnie.Cady]

@Rob_Lockwood error checking may have been somewhat addressed in fusion.  I don't use fusion every day so I am not really sure what this setting does.

to be honest I don't really care which method they use. I just hope they re-evaluate the current stance they have taken on this.  

So for me if the order would be as follows.  These mainly stem from the the turning work flow for me since I don't do much complex milling

1. Predictable results when settings are made. Therefor eliminate the need to make changes.

2. Instant tool paths like drill, bore, circular, face, partoff etc...

3. Have an apply button so I can choose to generate and wait for results if I want to.  I know on longer operations this may not be an acceptable method and one could easily being doing something else while calculating.  But for me I rarely move to the next operation until after I have the one I am working on the way I want it since future ops may depend on it.

[Anonymous]

Mr. Cj. Abraham,

"Show toolpath permanently during editing the operation"

This option  already implemented  or still under process

if it's having in HSM. kindly forward demo videos