Sketch moves after breaking link

[chrisCFHNJ]

I am creating a standard drawer that I will use to drag into all sorts of different designs. I want to be able to quickly drag it in, position it, and then constrain the sketch to the opening of the cabinet, and then break the link so the drawer is local to the cabinet. It works great, right up until I break the link. 

Before I break the link, the sketch is where it should be (if I position it with the "move" command, NOT with the joint command):

As soon as I break the link to the external file so the drawer is local to the design, the sketch reverts back:

The sketch moves over to where it was originally when the drawer was inserted. When I finish editing it, it moves back. 

This means I can't relate the sketch properly to the cabinet. 

Am I doing something wrong here? Any advice would be appreciated. 

Thank you,

Chris

[jeff_strater]

making an assumption here that when you say "I want to be able to quickly drag it in" that this is an external design that contains just a sketch.  Second, when you say "position it", you are using Move with the type set to "Components".  I'm not really sure what you mean by "and then constrain the sketch to the opening of the cabinet", since you also say you are not using Joints to position the component.

If that is all correct, then what you describe is somewhat expected.  Not desirable, but expected.  When you position an external component, you are really just capturing the position of that component.  You don't say whether you do Capture Position or not, but I think it might not matter.  However, when you do Break Link, you are changing the nature of that component from external to Internal.  I suspect that what is happening is that the transform of that external component no longer is applied, because it is a different component.

Let me run some simple tests to see if that is correct.

You might have better luck if you did use Joints, or if you moved the sketch geometry after the Break Link.

[chrisCFHNJ]

I would like to take a fully modeled drawer, insert it into another design, and "constrain" it to the cabinet. By "constrain" I mean set it so it changes sizes based on the opening size. Like the example below, where the .51in dim is the dim from the edge of the opening to where the drawer starts:

Also, when I use the joint command, it leaves the sketch behind rather than moving it. 

It sounds like this is just how it works: When you bring a design in, the sketch stays where it is while you move the components around. I'll have to find a way to work around that. It seems like the desirable thing would be for the sketch to move to where the component moves, or at least have the option to be able to do that. 

[jeff_strater]

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@chrisCFHNJ wrote:

I would like to take a fully modeled drawer, insert it into another design, and "constrain" it to the cabinet. By "constrain" I mean set it so it changes sizes based on the opening size. Like the example below, where the .51in dim is the dim from the edge of the opening to where the drawer starts:

Also, when I use the joint command, it leaves the sketch behind rather than moving it. 

It sounds like this is just how it works: When you bring a design in, the sketch stays where it is while you move the components around. I'll have to find a way to work around that. It seems like the desirable thing would be for the sketch to move to where the component moves, or at least have the option to be able to do that. 

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If the sketch is inside of the external design, Joint should move the sketch along with the rest of the component.  But, there must be more going on in your workflow than I understand, because if you are able to edit the sketch to constrain it, then you must be using Edit in Place to do the edit.  Otherwise, you should not be able to change parameters in the sketch, add constraints, etc.  But, editing a sketch in place will affect ALL instances of that sketch.  Is that what you are doing?  Perhaps a screencast would help us understand the workflow and questions better. Would it be possible to create one? Thanks.

[jeff_strater]

here is a crude screencast illustrating what I am trying to say about components and sketches in those components.  I insert a component with a sketch, and Move Components does move the sketch around.  Even after Break Link that is still true.  I forgot to illustrate Joint, but I know that a Joint will, indeed, position the sketch along with the component.

So, it will help us to understand your question if you can show what you are doing that is different than this.  Thanks.

[chrisCFHNJ]

Here is a video of the behavior I am referring to. I show how the joint command and the move command cause it to behave differently, but neither one really works for what I am attempting to do. 

https://vimeo.com/672784559/19b968d60a

Any advice or help is appreciated. 

-Chris

[TrippyLighting]

Can you share your design (export as .f3d and attach to next post)?

[chrisCFHNJ]

I have attached the base cabinet and the drawer. 

[chrisCFHNJ]

Here is one more video showing the same problem, but this time with an extrusion. So the problem isn't specific to sketches. 

https://vimeo.com/672885683/1f593d133d

[TrippyLighting]

The rigid group joint only includes 5 components/origins. It also needs to include the top level component/origin.

[chrisCFHNJ]

I added the origin to the rigid group, but it still doesn't work. As soon as I break the link, the sketch moves back. 

https://a360.co/3GcyJT1

[TrippyLighting]

Works fine on my side with the model you liked to.

[chrisCFHNJ]

That is really odd. Can you do a quick video showing it working? Remember to break the link of course. 

It is very consistently not working on my system, and I need to know why. It isn't a huge deal on this one thing, but it affects how we will design sub-assemblies moving forward, so it is critical that we get this right. 

[chrisCFHNJ]

Thanks - but you didn't edit the sketch after breaking the link. It looks the same on my end to the point where you stopped. The sketch doesn't jump back to the origin until you edit it. Try editing the sketch after breaking the link. 

The goal is to relate the sketch to the cabinet opening. 

[jeff_strater]

thanks, @chrisCFHNJ .  There is a lot here in this thread, including some bugs that might or might not exist in Edit in Place.  But, the video you posted contains what I believe is the crux of your problem, and it has nothing to do with external components or Break Link on an external component.  It can be demonstrated on a simple local component.  And, for better or worse, it is the expected behavior.

The behavior that is concerning to you is:  Whenever you edit a sketch, Fusion "rolls back" to the point in time when that sketch was created.  If that is before the addition of a Joint or a Capture Position, those features will be rolled back as well.  So, when your video shows the sketch "moving" when edited, it is not moving, it is just being edited in the position it was created in.  The screencast below should help, I believe.

You should, instead of thinking about using sketch dimensions and constraints to position a component, use Joints and Joint Origins to position the component.  Use the sketch to drive the size of the component, and Joints to position it.

[chrisCFHNJ]

Right - if I was drawing the drawer in place in the cabinet, it would be no problem. However, the point is that I need to be able to bring in a pre-drawn drawer and then relate it to the cabinet (we drawer custom cabinets with all sorts of different kinds of drawers, so we don't want to drawer each drawer in place each time). My first thought was to bring the drawer in, position it with the joint command, and then use the sketch to relate to the cabinet. 

What I understand you to be saying is that wherever you insert an external component into a design, the sketch for that component stays wherever it was when it initially was inserted, instead of moving with the part. That is what I am seeing as well, although it is odd that external components behave differently. 

Here is a video of the best way I could figure out to do this:

https://vimeo.com/672970731/a35fe20dbb

I did this by making the drawer with a control sketch that is not related to the origin point. 

If anyone has a better idea of how to bring in a pre-drawn drawer and relate it to the cabinet, please let me know. 

Thanks for all the help, it is appreciated!

-Chris

[davebYYPCU]

Surely you just want to edit these to 16.75 x 4.6 or some other value?

Might help.....

[chrisCFHNJ]

I could manually adjust the size of the drawer each time the opening size changes, yes. But I want to relate it to the cabinet opening so that when the opening changes sizes, the drawer also changes automatically. 

[davebYYPCU]

That this cabinet was created after the drawer file, is the first of a whole lot of planning changes to address.

Yes there will be some manual changes.  

None of these files are set up for that, it takes planning with clearance values and the like.

In the main file the only sketch available is sketch 70.

Importing such a draw without facia plate, or the size parameterised is just the start.

Sketch 1 in the front drawer does not use an expression parameter similar to;

d1 = (drawer opening - (clearance x 2))

Sketch 70 needs a point ((drawer opening / 2 )+ clearance).

Joint to the bottom corner and manual offset is just as intensive. (& using existing parameters?)

Joint midpoint of the face to a point in Sketch 70, makes more sense.

Might help....