Possible to reorder a sketch in front of one from which you projected geometry

[johan.rutgeerts]

Hi,

I noticed the following is possible:

• Define Sketch1, containing some geometry,
• Define a 2nd sketch, project Sketch1 geometry into Sketch2,
• Drag Sketch2 in front of Sketch1 in the timeline.

So you end up with Sketch2 that contains projected geometry which at that point in the timeline does not exist.

I assume this is unintentional behavior and hence a bug.

Regards,

Johan

[davebYYPCU]

Projected Geometry that is not linked will allow sketches to behave that way.

Might help....

[TrippyLighting]

I cannot reproduce that behavior. Would you be able to share a design that exhibits that behavior?

[jeff_strater]

we have seen cases where cyclic dependencies have been introduced in designs, but have never been able to reproduce it.  If you have a way to replicate that, please record it in a screencast, and share the model here.  I tried a simple set of steps, and could not reproduce it, but if you can do so, we would be VERY interested.

[johan.rutgeerts]

Well, the good news is that it is still is reproducible on my computer...

File in attachment and here is the screencast.

Version info:

Regards,

Johan

[johan.rutgeerts]

The cool thing is, you can even project back geometry from Sketch2 to Sketch1 😉

I do get a circular reference error however when Sketch2 is dragged behind Sketch1 again.

Anyway, I think the bug might be in the reordering rules of the timeline, see this 2nd screencast and file in attachment:

- Define Sketch1, Sketch2 and Sketch3 without interdependencies,

- Each sketch can be reordered in the timeline.

- Restore the initial timeline order: Sketch1, 2, 3,

- Open Sketch3 and project Sketch2 geometry into it,

- Suddenly Sketch2 (!) cannot be dragged anymore in the timeline. Not behind Sketch3 of course due to the projection, but also not in front of Sketch1,

- Sketch1 and Sketch3 can still be dragged anywhere (Sketch3 also in front of Sketch2).

[jeff_strater]

@johan.rutgeerts - thanks!  You are definitely on to something valuable here.  I can see that the model you shared here has this problem.  In fact, if I edit sketch1, I can then project the line from sketch2 into sketch1, creating a cyclic dependency.

But...  I cannot see how to reproduce this.  I tried the steps in the screencast (it's not like there are that many), but afterward, I cannot drag sketch2 before sketch1.  So, I'm very interested in trying to figure out how to do that.  If you have any theories about what I might be doing wrong here, I'd appreciate the insight.

[johan.rutgeerts]

@jeff_strater I made another screencast which is a bit more clear to see, but I don't see any difference in what we do.

I did a full reboot (again) as I have seen weird behavior in the past which was resolved by restarting Fusion 360.

After restart it mentioned fusion was updated, but the issue is still present.

I have no idea howcome I can reproduce this, whereas others can't, but I'm open to suggestions from your QA people on what I could do to help identify the cause (e.g. enable some debug loglevel and provide the debug log file).

Regards,

Johan

[jeff_strater]

Aha!  By following the steps exactly in your screencast, I can re-create this!  I wonder (though, do not understand) whether it's because you added that circle in Sketch2 after the Project.  I don't think I did that before.  I will let our QA folks know about this.  I think it deserves a pretty high priority, because it has the potential to introduce cyclic dependencies.

[edit] created bug FUS-111027 for this

[johan.rutgeerts]

@jeff_strater it's not due to the circle, as it can be reproduced with just lines as well, see the 2nd screencast.

Anyway, given the reproducibility I assume your software colleagues will quickly identify the cause, and hopefully it's an easy fix.  🙂

Regards,

Johan

[johan.rutgeerts]

@jeff_strater I noticed following similar behavior, which might be related:

- Add a component and some other features to the timeline, which do not reference the component,

- The component can be dragged back and forth in the timeline, since it does not reference nor is referenced by the other components,

- Define a joint between the component and the top level,

- Suddenly, the component cannot be dragged anymore in the timeline,

- Drag the joint in front of the component in the timeline (imo this should not be possible),

- The joint feature obviously fails, 

- It is possible again to drag the component in the timeline.

See this screencast.

Also a minor, and probably unrelated, nuisance: sometimes it is difficult to drag a feature to the end of the timeline. 

Regards,

Johan

[johan.rutgeerts]

@jeff_strater Or rather: it seems that *any* feature that references another feature, blocks the first feature in the timeline from being dragged.

See the file in attachment:

- Sketch2 can no longer be dragged after Extrude1 has been defined,

- Extrude1 can also no longer be dragged after Hole1 has been defined, which references the top face of Extrude1.

[g-andresen]

Hi,

I can drag both Sketch2 and Extrude1 inside the expected range.

Screencast

günther

[johan.rutgeerts]

---

@g-andresen wrote:

I can drag both Sketch2 and Extrude1 inside the expected range.

---

Well, no idea what causes it but in any case I can no longer drag Sketch2 after Extrude1 is defined, and I can no longer drag Extrude1 after Hole1 is defined: screencast.

Regards,

Johan

[g-andresen]

Hi,

Why this speed in the actions?
Unfortunately, it is not possible to see without a doubt in your screencast which sketch is being moved.
Uninstall Fusion using the service utilities.

günther

[johan.rutgeerts]

Well, I expected it to be clear from the screencast that I define three non-dependent sketches, then define Extrude1 based on Sketch2 and then I cannot drag Sketch2. 

I can still drag the other sketches, and I can still drag Extrude1.

Then I define Hole1 onto a surface of Extrude1, after which I can no longer drag Extrude1.

And even without clearly seeing which exact feature I select: they should all be draggable anyway.

However, if you really really want to check the details: there's a playback rate selector 😉

Thanks for the tip on the service utilities.

@jeff_strater Before I do a reinstall: is there any log file / debug info / etc you might need?

[johan.rutgeerts]

@jeff_straterFyi: I did an uninstall using the service utilities, and a fresh reinstall, but it did not cure the issue.

@g-andresen @TrippyLighting @davebYYPCU I made another screencast that I think more clearly shows the issue. Am I the only one experiencing this?

Regards,

Johan

[jeff_strater]

I am not surprised that re-installing did not fix this issue.  It does not feel like a "bad install" issue to me.  You are certainly the only one that I have seen that has been able to reproduce these issues reliably, but I suspect (since we have seen some designs with cyclic dependencies) that others have stumbled into this issue, but they just have not been as dogged about debugging them as you have, so they don't understand the core of the issue as well as you do.