Joints disappear when moving a component into another component or breaking a link

[andrew.smithPWL2Q]

Hello!

As I build my models I will bring in or generate components and then find the need to organize these into assemblies (components containing components). When I move a component that has a number of joints and rigid body connections from the 'root' to a component, the joints disappear - poof gone. If I undo the move, they're back.

This also happens when breaking the link to an inserted model.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem to happen when track design history is off... But I do like being able to go back and modify things so would rather leave it on... 

Does anybody else see this behaviour? Is it normal? If so, why?

Thanks in advance to anybody that can shine some light on this...

Best regards,
Andrew

[g-andresen]

Hi,

Joints are only located within an assembly if they refer to components of this assembly.

Connections between different assemblies appear in the parent level.

Please share a sample file.

File > export > save as f3d on local drive  > attach it to the next post.

günther

[andrew.smithPWL2Q]

Hello Günther,

Thank you for your response and sorry for possibly being too vague. I've recorded a quick screencast of the behaviour:

https://autode.sk/3w56nY4

You can find the 'after' Fusion-file attached.

During my testing just now, I realized that the joints are still there, however they are invisible even though their visibility is on the display settings (bottom edge of the viewport). If I locate them in the browser and right-click in order to select drive joint, I can do so ... that's just very cumbersome.

In this test file, breaking the link to the inserted model resolves the issue. After that I can move the component into other components without the joints disappearing. However, just yesterday I had the situation where breaking the link itself yielded the observed behaviour... 

Best regards,
Andrew

[tyler_henderson · Accepted solution]

Andrew, I don't think this is expected.  I'll have the Dev team look into it.  Thanks for reporting this.

[andrew.smithPWL2Q]

Hello!

I recorded another screencast showing how - after breaking the link to the inserted component - the joints are still in the browser tree, but don't work... In case this helps troubleshooting the issue in any way...:

https://autode.sk/3M24nq0

Best regards,
Andrew

[g-andresen]

Hi,

that´s what I see 

günther

[andrew.smithPWL2Q]

This is the message I get after exporting the file and trying to open it myself:

Could this be because I'm running an insider build? The error we're discussing here was also present when using the production build...

[tyler_henderson · Accepted solution]

I was able to reproduce the Joint visibility issue on Production, and I've logged a defect (Ref: FUS-104561).

But I also noticed if I save the file, close it, then reopen it, the Joints reappear in the canvas.  So hopefully that works for you also.

[andrew.smithPWL2Q]

Hi!

That's good to know - I didn't "dare" save my seemingly corrupted file for fear of baking the error into the model. This fear was probably exaggerated as F360 has a built in versioning system... this is probably a result of my old-fashioned way of thinking about files and how they work 🙂

I tested saving and re-opening a file where the joints had disappeared and they came back - that is good to know!

Thanks!

Best regards,
Andrew

[andrew.smithPWL2Q]

Hi!

I've recorded a screencast of a more serious aspect of this issue - the joints in this file are still listed in the browser but cannot be 'driven' anymore. This is also a result of breaking the link to an inserted component. I don't know how to recover the joints...

https://autode.sk/3yRBRUm

Any ideas?

Best regards,
Andrew

[tyler_henderson]

Andrew, I tested this in the latest Production build and it is working fine. I broke the link on MM3A-EM, then I was still able to edit the Joints in MM3A.  I see in your screencast that you have an update pending.  Can you update Fusion then try it again?

[andrew.smithPWL2Q]

Hello Tyler,

I've updated to the latest insider version (but the behaviour was exactly the same the last time I tried it in the production version). I recorded a (somewhat lengthy) screencast showing the issues.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/0b97cb2c-f834-41fa-80c4-f2fc5089498c

I created a new file with two inserted models: MM3A-EM and MM3E. Breaking the link to MM3A-EM is fine (in this case). Breaking the link to MM3E breaks the joints - they actually disappear from the browser.

I noticed now that prior to breaking the link (after 'undo-ing' the first attempt), the joints have yellow warnings. Maybe this is the origin of (parts of) the issue?

Moving the linked component into a new component makes the 'flags' disappear, but the joints still work. Breaking the link causes them to go poof, once again...

Turning off "capture design history" allows breaking the link without losing the joints. But even then, moving the MM3E component into the MM3A-EM component causes the joints to be broken (right-clicking them no longer allows driving the joints)...

It's all very confusing to me... 

Best regards,
Andrew

[tyler_henderson]

Hi Andrew,

It definitely looks like there are a couple of things going on with Joints related to breaking the link and restructuring the assembly.  Your video didn't show the timeline which can sometimes help with diagnosing issues, but I might not be able to see everything in the timeline anyway.  Could you upload the dataset you showed in the last video so we can try reproducing those issues? 

Regards,

[andrew.smithPWL2Q]

Here are two example files...

[tyler_henderson]

Thanks, Andrew.

I went back and reviewed your last video in detail.  I see two issues:

1. The Joints in Test>MM3E>MM3E are missing references.  This issue appears to be present from the start.  None of the changes you made (restructuring or breaking/unbreaking the link) are causing that issue to appear/disappear in the video.  Now, I can't tell why those joint references are missing, but I do know we are working to fix the known issue of you not being able to edit the Joints to re-select the references.  Another strange thing I noticed is the Joints can still be driven even though the references are missing.  It makes me think the references really aren't missing, but the Joint is stuck in a state where it thinks they're missing.

2. In Test>MM3A-EM>MM3E>MM3E, the Joints appear ok but the right-click Context Menu does not have the proper commands.  Since these same joints are missing the references in the assembly structure described in #1 above, I would expect that same issue to be present when the assembly is nested further, but we aren't seeing the error icons in this case.  I suspect this may have something to do with the context menu issue.

I'm going to create defect tickets for both of these issues.  Is it ok if I attach your datasets to those issues for the Dev team to test?

I'm sorry you're experiencing these issues and apologize that I don't have an immediate solution.  Hopefully these can be fixed soon.

Regards,

[andrew.smithPWL2Q]

Thank you for your detailed response. Yes, please feel free to pass the files along to your dev team.

Looking forward to seeing this resolved... At the same time, I'd like to emphasize that working with F360 is an absolute joy. The germans have a saying: "Jammern auf hohem Niveau" which translates to "complaining at a high level", i.e. even if things are great, one can always find something to complain about 🙂

Best regards,
Andrew

[tyler_henderson]

Thank you for the positive comment, and I'm glad you like Fusion 360 overall.  We appreciate your feedback to help us continually improve.