Hi Autodesk - what does it take to get attention to long standing Mac OS install and UI issues?

[beananimal]

Hi - bringing some long standing gripes to the forefront in hopes of renewed traction toward a resolution.

1 - Mac installation issues

• The app is a non-standard install that does not follow Apple convention or any common sense. The application is installed in a non standard location and places data outside of the standard apple prescribed locations.
• The application does not appear in spotlight search and has to be manually tracked down and dragged to the dock. It may or may not show up properly in launch pad, as the icon there often points to an orphaned executable. 
• Often times when there is a software update, the existing dock icon breaks and the new one has to be manually found and added or two dock icons show up, with one being correct and the old one broken (orphaned)
• the latest (IMHO unstable) update creates a NEW dock icon every time the application crashes and/or randomly creates a new icon after closing F360 and re-opening.
• on random app shut downs, the app can NOT be opened "The application 'Autodesk Fusion 360.app' can't be opened." is the message. The icon points to the wrong place. Sometimes the App Launcher icon can be used to recover, other times a full re-install must take place, likely due to broken dependencies from the wonky update process. 
• EVERY TIME any of the above problems occurs, one has to remember to right click the 'new' dock icon and select "Keep in dock", as the icon is 'new' and defaults to removing itself from the dock when closed (or there is a crash) and it replaces itself again. Browsing to a hidden app library to retrieve the latest executable link is extremely frustrating.

Given the above issue with a new dock icon constantly being created and orphaning the existing one, I have a feeling that your "fix" for this whole mess was to attempt to use script of some sort that automates copying the "new" icon to  the dock. This (clearly) is a disaster. 

2 - Graphics and UI persistent issues.

• Modal windows stealing focus for Fusion360 when it is open in the background or minimized. 
• Popup advertising for plugins or whatever else you want to convey cause above behavior. REALLY?!
• Change of internet connection, going offline, etc causes above behavior. Why does your application not use the built in apple notification interface? There is no excuse for a modern application to steal GUI focus. This is not real-time life safety software - NOTHING IS IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO STEAL FOCUS.
• Like above, any tool dialog left open generates a focus stealing modal dialog warning that the file can't be autosaved. This dialog steals focus and WILL NOT stop popping up until the offending tool is cancelled or closed. 
• The component browser misbehaves and clips (appears above) ALL open applications from time to time. This is triggered from the above events and other unknown things. F360 should NEVER steal focus or clip other interfaces with its own graphics.

3 - Pan, Zoom, Orbit

• Once a tool dialog is open pan and zoom via touchpad breaks or becomes basically unusable. Once can no longer pan effectively and zoom becomes super sensitive. This happens with touchpad - and is very frustrating. A bit different than the loss of orbit issue - but may be related.  Overall though, the touchpad is just not really usable for F360 on a Mac for as long as I can remember.

Both the Mac installation issues and focus stealing issues are the result of application design that does not adhere to longstanding UI and/or OS vendor standards and best practices. It does not appear from this perspective that any effort is being made to resolve these issues.

I don't think it is at all unreasonable for your customers to expect an application of this size, maturity and budget to install and behave properly on a modern operating system. You have known about these issues for years and they have no been fixed. In fact, they continue to get worse over time and not better. The only thing that has changed is that Autodesk has stopped responding to threads regarding these issues. 

This application is extremely frustrating to use on the Apple platform.

[bentwookie]

In before some 'Elite' member tells you to suck it up. 😉

E: Ha. I just placed your name. We've always had beananimal drains. Our family's ears thank you. 

[karolisd]

Regarding Fusion dock icon on Mac: I gave up on it around 2 years ago. 

All of the mentioned issues in this thread are very true and very annoying. On the other hand Fusion has a lot of great features so in the end it's a love/hate relationship.

I don't think they are ever going to fix the install location, as it is currently being installed in a user directory IMHO to make sure that automatic updates always have the permissions to write to that folder with or without user knowing about it. Is it cool? No. Can I live with it? Kind of... The dock icon issues are probably related to this install method.

I recently purchased M1 macbook pro, and it was astonishing how much slower Fusion runs/starts compared to the other apps on my laptop. 

[beananimal]

Small world. Very glad that you enjoy the overflows. It has been over 15 years and I randomly run into people from all over the world that use or know about the overflow. Just fished in Alaska and another party at the remote lodge uses them... some random guy on the brides side of a friends wedding... A Saudi prince... Anyway, always nice to hear that it is still relevant!

[beananimal]

I don't feel that the "ease of update" is a valid reason to abandon Apple's model, but I agree that AD will likely never do it the accepted way. I think early on an AD team member indicated that they didn't understand what the big deal was and they install they way they do for ease of network component setup or something. So you are correct in the sense that they are trying to bypass some permissions issue instead of working within the accepted application framework. 

In any case, my money is that they ignore all of the above issues, the same as they have for 5+ years.

[markCR7LB]

My team has been using Fusion 360 on Mac since 2016, and many of these issues have persisted throughout that period. I am grateful that some of the longstanding issues have received attention recently – the eternal trackpad issue for instance... however, as of the latest release it's again broken.

I've always been an advocate for Fusion 360, but the recurring critical issues along with the many quirks enumerated by @beananimal, give the impression that Autodesk just isn't serious about the platform or its professional users. It certainly makes it harder to defend my position when team members ask when we're going to switch to a "real" CAD system.

[pendean]

@beananimal Autodesk looks for feedback in the "other" forum, over here. everyone in here is just an end user like you https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-feedback-hub/bd-p/6069

Also, do you have the In-product share feedback function in your version? To find this function, navigate to your user icon and select “share feedback.” Another way to reach Autodesk.

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You can also open a support case with Autodesk if you are on subscription to seek out Autodesk Support's help: https://knowledge.autodesk.com/customer-service/account-management/users-software/support-options/we...

Side note: you all can also join here http://autode.sk/fusion360insider and get involved in more of the development.

HTH

[beananimal]

Respectfully - You may honestly be trying to help, but your comments feel rather pedantic given the context and legacy of these issues. Not looking for a fight here, just trying to get some traction.

1 - Wrong forum?  Posted below is the title and description of this sub forum

"Fusion 360 Support"
"Report issues, bugs, and or unexpected behaviors.... support from the community as well as from the Fusion 360 team. 

As well as the fact, that Fusion 360 team members regularly respond to posts here. 

Moreover, the "feedback hub" forum you suggest and linked to is NOT for users to post in - it is locked. It is a place where users can REPLY to posts created by the AD team. 

2 - opening a ticket for these long standing issues is mostly useless. For example, regarding the installation issues, support simply points you to an article indicting WHERE to find the installation location in the hidden Library or indicates the behavior is expected or is already noted as a reported issue. The same holds true for the myriad of GUI issues. 3-5 years of requests to get these items addressed. 

3 - Feedback from within that app - nothing like shoving suggestions into a bottomless suggestion box where the public can't see them and there is no common plea for help that other affected users can see and respond to.

4 - Yes I am a paying subscriber and no, I don't want to be an insider. Issues as old as this are already known, they are just ignored.

[bentwookie]

I don't think the lack of polish and strange platform problems are the result of Autodesk not hearing about issues. People report this stuff all the time. 

The problem is addressing technical debt seems to take a backseat to almost everything else.

[karolisd]

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@beananimal wrote:

I don't feel that the "ease of update" is a valid reason to abandon Apple's model...

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I would say this is not so much related to "ease of update", but "having full control over the app and being able to restrict access to certain features at any moment in time".  Something like that.

[beananimal]

Maybe - but I suspect it is a bit of a lot of things, including an underlying codebase built on early bad decisions that have become too engrained to undo without staring over.  Could be wrong, but whatever the case, the Mac client is very frustrating to deal with and I hope that at some point it gets better. 

[bentwookie]

I think their Qt and GL usage is the source of many of these squirrelly window ordering and event issues.

Fusion currently links in Qt 5.15 from 2020. Corporate partner support for Qt5 ends in May. They also appear to use a five year old VTK which requires OpenGL. Apple deprecated its GL implementation in 2018 and I'm not sure the more recent versions of VTK have moved to Vulcan, much less support Metal. 

I really hope there's an effort underway to get the app on some more modern underpinnings before an unsupported library bites us all in the butt. 

[beananimal]

I certainly hope they don't try to ride a deprecated library until it breaks...

Sadly other than the browser clipping issue and the disappearing elements, the other UI issues are appear to be purely the result of poor UI design, lazy coding and/or lack of consideration for overall user experience inside and outside F360.

As I mentioned, there is simply no excuse for a non life-safety application to steal focus for a notification. As well, there is no reason that the application should interrupt users for notifications given the modern Windows and Apple messaging notification areas. The "network connectivity" warnings, "advertising pop-ups" and "autosave failure" notices are three such examples. I don't know about the PC but on the Mac, these do steal focus and that flows into the other graphics problems. 

[pendean]

There is no "wrong" forum, just better ones to get the attention you asked for (aka Autodesk).
This forum is generally frequented by fellow end users, rarely by anyone "Autodesk" and rarely a Fusion360 Program Manager.

FWIW the feedback hubs on the site require you to find an [open] topic to add your comments to, it is not for us mere mortals to create a topic.
If you cannot find one then message one or more of the authors with open topics to get the attention you deserve. You sort of have to be aggressive about getting the attention you want.

Best wishes.

[beananimal]

Thanks for the feedback, but per my comments above I know exactly what forum I posted to and why and how the "feedback hub" works. 

[beananimal]

Well - it looks like I now (not of my own doing) have two versions of F360 installed. So much for the update process working 😉